New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!

[AndrewJ]

How about you come up with a decent offer then sunshine.

[|Kippa|]

The principle of having a quota isn't a bad one. Personally in my opinion I am against it, but what I think some people are arguing 10gb a day just doesn't cut it. 10gb about 4 years ago would have been plently and ample, but not today. The goal posts constantly keep moving and for a 20mbit connection having a 10gb a day just isn't enough. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that people with 20mbit go over 10gb every day, it is just that every so often people use more than 10gb a day easly.

[Mick Fisher]

10gig a day, wow! that's 70gig a week.

I rarely go over 70gig a month.

But you are right, it's good to have just for on that odd occasion.

[pip08456]

I've had a decent read of this thread and have to agree with all those complaining about STM. In my area we are limited to the HUGE amount of 750Mb between 4.00pm-12.00pm.

Personally I'm jumping ship and going to BePro which including the cost of the BT line will be less than I pay VM now And no I don't have a TV package from VM so it would appear I gain and VM loose.

[Berealwith]

I live in a STM Trial area..............It's got to be the worst thing ever..........Does anyone know how these bloody trials will last............If you test something you know how long your going to be doing it, dont you ??

[DipsTheOne]

Im not in a STM area but it happens to me every night 9pm on wards and some times 4pm onwards, even though I dont download much might be a few demo's, This STM is efecting my gameing On line with cod4 Makes it laggy on most servers and making me want to move ship I don't want to has when its not STM its a very good line .

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by DipsTheOne

Im not in a STM area but it happens to me every night 9pm on wards and some times 4pm onwards, even though I dont download much might be a few demo's, This STM is efecting my gameing On line with cod4 Makes it laggy on most servers and making me want to move ship I don't want to has when its not STM its a very good line .

I suspect that what you're seeing (after 9pm) is congestion at your local UBR (or perhaps a 'busy' source) -- according to VM, that's what it would be like from 4pm if they'd not brought in STM.

The congestion should improve once 20Mb/s users are transferred to DoCSIS3 later in the year.

[Wossi]

Since the clocks changed I now can't download anything until 10pm. After that it's fine. I forgot and was in the process of downloading about 1.4gb last night when I realised the connection was slow, checked and I was down to 2mb speeds.

If what you say is true about the 20mb users, then hopefully they can relax the stm limits and or times.

[pip08456]

I wouldn't be so bothered and willing to jump ship if I had actually been informed of this trial happening.

However they didn''t and that to me is an abuse of the T's & C's and of the consumer credit act.

Had they informed me then I would have willingly changed my download habits, although the 750Mb limit is very restricting, so much for Uma Therman advertising "you can download me as much as you want, when you want".

As far as being the fastest BB connection in the UK that is in doubt due to BeThere offering up to 24Mbs and on their BePro package (BePro users should expect 22 Mbs D/L) offering up to 2.5Mbs upload.

I have no sympathy for a company that is so short sighted that it cannot (or will not) deliver on it's promises. To implement STM shows a considerable lack of foresight when it is effecting more than the 3 or 5% they are complaining about.

I don't give a toss about the TV package (I haven't had one for at least 2 years) as most of it is repeats and I can migrate my phone no to BT. Not going to cause me a problem!

[coderGeek29]

Has anyone experienced any application (ie P2P) throttling? Not just limiting download speeds during certain hours, but actually trying to slow down BitTorrents?

The reason I ask is that for a month or so now, I've been getting some really slow (~2kb/s) speeds on BitTorrent. At first, I thought it was a problem with my connection so I ran some speed tests and sure enough I was only getting ~100kb/s. So, I phoned Virgin who told me there was a known issue in my area and they would be fixing it on May 16. To my utter amazement, May 16th rolls around, and it's been fixed - I'm getting ~15Mb/s now!! Alas, though, BitTorrent is still as slow as ever .

Then, I get the idea to see if they are actively monitoring the connection and restricting certain applications, so I change the port in Transmission and enable encryption. Then BOOM, things speed up straight away and I'm now getting ~60kb/s.

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by coderGeek29

Has anyone experienced any application (ie P2P) throttling? Not just limiting download speeds during certain hours, but actually trying to slow down BitTorrents?

Not noticed it lately but there have been several rumours that it's coming real soon now...

Then, I get the idea to see if they are actively monitoring the connection and restricting certain applications, so I change the port in Transmission and enable encryption. Then BOOM, things speed up straight away and I'm now getting ~60kb/s.

60kb/s?
Like 8kB/s? or 60kB/s?

I'll do some evaluation downloads later this evening but could I suggest you do the Glastnost test?
(Probably best to wait until the post-9pm rush settles down, if at all possible.)

Background info on the Glasnost test from TorrentFreak

[leadbelly]

Originally Posted by |Kippa|

The principle of having a quota isn't a bad one. Personally in my opinion I am against it, but what I think some people are arguing 10gb a day just doesn't cut it. 10gb about 4 years ago would have been plently and ample, but not today. The goal posts constantly keep moving and for a 20mbit connection having a 10gb a day just isn't enough. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that people with 20mbit go over 10gb every day, it is just that every so often people use more than 10gb a day easly.

lol

well put it this way... i have a 2mb connection and my limit is only 300mb a day. now that is absolutely ridiculous. i have my PC, xbox 360 and PS3 all running from that connection so that means i will reach that practically everyday.

300mb is a couple of game trailers downloaded on xbox live. because my connection speed isn't that fast to begin with, it means stuff like game demos and movies that are digitally distributed over xbox live would take a matter of hours. when they cap you, it will take twice the amount of time, so what was like an hour and a half download, suddenly turns into 3 hours.

i pay money for xbox live. my usage of the service is being restricted so i'm losing out.

[icsys]

Originally Posted by leadbelly

lol

well put it this way... i have a 2mb connection and my limit is only 300mb a day. now that is absolutely ridiculous. i have my PC, xbox 360 and PS3 all running from that connection so that means i will reach that practically everyday.

300mb is a couple of game trailers downloaded on xbox live. because my connection speed isn't that fast to begin with, it means stuff like game demos and movies that are digitally distributed over xbox live would take a matter of hours. when they cap you, it will take twice the amount of time, so what was like an hour and a half download, suddenly turns into 3 hours.

i pay money for xbox live. my usage of the service is being restricted so i'm losing out.

Some would say that 2Mb is insufficient for what you are trying to do with it.

BUT... we pay for speed of connection not the amount that can be downloaded. So it may take five times longer to download a file on 2Mb than it does on 10Mb, that would be my choice.

SO... if VM are trying to force people to pay for a faster connection AND insist on keeping the crappy STM, maybe they should re-advertise the tiers as download thresholds rather than speed??

[pip08456]

I've had a reply from the ASA about my complaint which goes to several pages.
Unfortunately my scanner is down at the moment otherwise I would make the full text available to you all.

It is worth noting that there are only 2 pages of the missive in reply but also
5 pages of their Adjudication which are watermarked "confidential" (why send them to a member of the public?)''
.
The total number of complaints is 30 one of whom is BSkyB.
So much for all those bitching on here about the service!

I know that my next quote can be construed incorrectly and when my scanner is up and running again the full text will be available.

Virgin Media said

"Virgin said they followed CAP guidance and always qualified their use of "unlimited" and stated that "acceptable use policy applies". They explained that their policy did not limit the amount of data a user could download over any period of time, and it did not have any price implications for heavy users.
They explained that, if a user was found to affect other users bandwidth, they would temporarily limit the speed of that user's internet connection. They said those user's would receive their full connection speed after 240 minutes. They said they planned to publish a list of Frequently Asked Questions on traffic management shortly. They argued that there were no limits to the amount of material that can be downloaded by customers and that the claim "unlimited downloads" was not misleading.

The above paragraph is an extract taken from paragraph 2 of the response by VM to the ASA.

As soon as I get my scanner working again I'll give you a link to the full text.
Forgot to add 750Mb between 4.00pm and 12.00p does not add up to 240 mins!

[icsys]

So was the complaint upheld or not?

Originally Posted by pippincp

Virgin Media said

"Virgin said they followed CAP guidance and always qualified their use of "unlimited" and stated that "acceptable use policy applies". They explained that their policy did not limit the amount of data a user could download over any period of time, and it did not have any price implications for heavy users.
They explained that, if a user was found to affect other users bandwidth, they would temporarily limit the speed of that user's internet connection. They said those user's would receive their full connection speed after 240 minutes. They said they planned to publish a list of Frequently Asked Questions on traffic management shortly. They argued that there were no limits to the amount of material that can be downloaded by customers and that the claim "unlimited downloads" was not misleading.

The above paragraph is an extract taken from paragraph 2 of the response by VM to the ASA.

So they follow CAP guidelines?

7 TRUTHFULNESS
7.1 No marketing communication should mislead, or be likely to mislead, by inaccuracy, ambiguity, exaggeration, omission or otherwise.

VM advertise broadband as: 'no download limits'
Yet bury the fact that there is a usage allowance which, when exceeded, initiates Subscriber Traffic Management.
You are referred to the T&Cs and the acceptable use Policy...

Cabled T&Cs
B About our services
4.i. We reserve the right to monitor and control data volume and/or types of traffic transmitted via the interactive services on your Virgin TV and/or Internet access. In the event that you exceed any usage allowance applicable to your Internet access or your use does not comply with the 'acceptable use policy' which you can read on the Virgin Media website, we reserve the right (at our sole discretion) to reduce, suspend or terminate your Internet access.

No mention of actual STM or link to the STM which contains details of the usage allowance, referred to in the T&Cs, before being throttled.

The AUP does not mention or link to the STM, only a link to section J (Ending the agreement) of the T&Cs

So where are the STM details?
Hidden under the 'Need to know' tab.
Omitted from the package sales details.
Omitted from the AUP and T&Cs

I would agree that there isn't technically a download limit. whether on 20Mb or 2Mb, you can still download a large file... it just takes ten times longer.

The misleading advertising for me is the fact that I pay for a 10Mb connection but for up to 9 hours a day it can potentially be as little as 2.5Mb because I have exceeded a usage allowance that is not clearly defined on a no download limit connection.