Migrant workers help UK economy

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

What nationality? Most immgration is slow, it hasnt gone up that drastically in the last 10 years. Most schools kids from immgrant familys would have been born here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4218740.stm

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/Brie...statistics.asp

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/immigration1.html

[JackB]

Originally Posted by Damien

What nationality? Most immgration is slow, it hasnt gone up that drastically in the last 10 years. Most schools kids from immgrant familys would have been born here.

Africans, asians and eastern europeans in my town and my son is in class with all of these nationalities. It's the same in other areas of the country too. Some of these kids who were born here don't speak English at home, they only have to speak and understand English at school so they're obviously not as fluent.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Womble

And you STILL have not addressed the issues in posts 30, 32, 33 and 34. But then again you wont, cos it doensn't suit your agenda

#30
Nitronutter refers to the race card several times, and even fatwas. Suggests he's exaggerating or at least not made any effort to deal with unacceptable behaviour.
Someone using their front garden as a toilet is a criminal offence (indecency) and a serious health hazard that the council will deal with. Both can be reported anonymously.

#32
Chrysalis refers to an open immigration policy, when that isn't the case. It's apparently not even that easy to get a tourist visa to come and visit the UK for tourism!
There's also the suggestion that there will be a language barrier strain on education as immigrants have more children than natives (I assume that by natives, Chrysalis is not including native muslims, catholics, chavs, orthadox jews etc), even though children born in this country to immigrant parents can speak english before they get to school through the amazing ability of children to learn languages, even from TV (I knew a turkish boy who by the age of 4 could speak fluent american thanks to Seseme street).

#33
I agree with, migrants either work a couple of years then go, or stay and settle putting their kids through the education system, paying tax as they work, and when their kids grow up, they'll do the same.

#34
Importing Poles to work in low paid jobs.
Well, if the local workforce are unwilling to work in that role for minimum wage, then from a business point of view, you have to get workers who are willing.
Keeps profits up enough to keep prices low enough for consumers to buy.
After all, if a business had high running costs, they'd have to have higher retail prices, and you'd have less money in your pocket, or would buy a cheaper imported product I'm sure.

So, now all that's been addressed, are you going to give us your definition of what the English way of life is?

---------- Post added at 13:53 ---------- Previous post was at 13:52 ----------

Originally Posted by JackB

He's ten years old but I don't understand what that's got to do with it. This isn't just about my son, as I said earlier this is becoming a problem in many towns and cities with large immigrant populations. Did you read the article I linked to earlier?

What did his head teacher say when you raised your concern with them?

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Might be off topic, but regarding Brixton. I have lived in south london for 30 years, close to Brixton.

In the 80s from my experience a lot of crime in Brixton(and surrounding areas eg Tulse Hill, Streatham, Herne Hill) was committed by young black males, most if not all who were born here. The crime Im talking about is muggings/street crime.

I don't think this could have been attributed to the immigrants moving into South London (large Asian/Indian population were residing there), as most of us were too scared to venture into Brixton.

I do not think its fair to attribute crime in Brixton to immigrants. Brixton was a pretty run down area in the 70s/80s. its only in the last 10 years that a lot of regeneration has happened. Same with Elephant Castle, Oval, Stockwell.

Most of the crime in this area is attributed to 'home grown' youth, not eastern europeans or other immigrants.

As for the riots, I wasn't aware of the manner in which they started, but I do know, talking to quite a few black men who grew up in the area and participated in the riots, that a lot of the rioters were English, and most of it was down to a sense of harrasement and being felt as to belonging to society.

[JackB]

What did his head teacher say when you raised your concern with them?

I haven't seen his head teacher and if I had she would more than likely tell me that this is becoming a widespread problem, which I already know.

An example.
http://www.tes.co.uk/search/story/?story_id=2291810

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by JackB

I haven't seen his head teacher and if I had she would more than likely tell me that this is becoming a widespread problem, which I already know.

Hang on, it's a really bad thing as far as you're concerned, bad enough to mention it as a reason why immigration is bad, yet you aren't bothered enough to discuss the matter with the school itself?
How very interesting.

Originally Posted by JackB

An example.
http://www.tes.co.uk/search/story/?story_id=2291810

So the gist of the story is that there aren't enough Catholic faith schools for the influx of Catholics from around the world.

Oh with regards to the express article, did you read it as "HALF of all school children in many of Britain's biggest cities do not speak English as their first language, an alarming report has revealed"

Or did you drop the "many of Britain's biggest cities" because it's a bit obvious that big cities would have large non-native populations forgetting that it says "many" rather than "all" or "most", and also forget that if English isn't someone's first language, it doesn't mean they aren't fluent in it?

[Osem]

There can be no doubt that mass immigration (especially that of non Englsih speakers) puts additional strain on public resources in those areas most affected by it. This is not the fault of the people concerned but it is a fact that they usually require considerable additional help and services. Were the government willing/able to identify problem areas and provide the necessary additional resources to cope with the extra demand and thereby reduce the impact on the local indigenous population there'd be fewer problems. But as we can see from the following:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/b...re/6649049.stm

that's not always what happens.

Of course there are arguments re the pros and cons of mass immigration but let's not try to claim there is no adverse effect.

From what I can see, the government still has little real idea as to how many legal immigrants have come here over the last decade and how many remain. Less so the figures for illegal immigration. It has no clue what the hundreds of thousands of Poles who've come here in the last 2 years intend to do in the future and how many may decide to settle here, bring their families and require specialist services such as schooling. Until it gets to grip with these issues and provides the additional resources required to cope with the demand there will continue to be problems.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1812940.ece

[JackB]

Or did you drop the "many of Britain's biggest cities" because it's a bit obvious that big cities would have large non-native populations forgetting that it says "many" rather than "all" or "most", and also forget that if English isn't someone's first language, it doesn't mean they aren't fluent in it?

I'm not in a big city and we have the problem here as many other towns that aren't mentioned in the article do to some extent.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by JackB

I'm not in a big city and we have the problem here as many other towns that aren't mentioned in the article do to some extent.

Wouldn't know, you're too paranoid to tell us which town you live in

So why haven't you taken this issue up with your child's head teacher?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Womble

As for Salmon Rushdie, he wrote a book ffs, so what?? Plenty books have been written about the Catholic Church, any death threats from the Pope?? thought not!

Wasn't that particular book pretty blasphemous towards Christianity as well?

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Wouldn't know, you're too paranoid to tell us which town you live in

So why haven't you taken this issue up with your child's head teacher?

A lot of parents are too lazy to make the trip into school if their kids arent doing well. Its much easier to blame the teachers and all the immigrant kids.

As for being paranoid to tell us where he lives maybe he lives in a place like Slough and is too ashamed to mention it. Thats one of those places no one likes to say they're from.

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

A lot of parents are too lazy to make the trip into school if their kids arent doing well. Its much easier to blame the teachers and all the immigrant kids.

And a lot of parents don't bring up their concerns because they can't see what good it would do and don't want to be branded as racists.

When even a schoolgirl's views are scrutinised for racism, there isn't much hope for parents raising similar concerns.

A TEENAGE girl was questioned by police after allegedly making a racist remark to Asian students in the classroom.

The 14-year-old pupil had refused to take part in a science tutorial with five other students at Harrop Fold High School, Salford, after claiming they didn't speak English ...

Source: Manchester Evening News

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by freezin

And a lot of parents don't bring up their concerns because they can't see what good it would do and don't want to be branded as racists.

When even a schoolgirl's views are scrutinised for racism, there isn't much hope for parents raising similar concerns.

Funny how there's no confirmation that the girls couldn't speak english don't you think?
Surely you can understand that if someone says they don't want to work with asians "because they can't speak english" when they actually can, its a racial slur?

If one child said they didn't want to work with a Liverpudlian child because "he'll steal my stuff" it's understandable that the child should be punished right? (not the Liverpudlian)

As for not bringing up concerns that your child isn't getting an education because the teacher's time is being spent with other children, I don't know of any decent parents who'd let that go without complaining to the school.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Funny how there's no confirmation that the girls couldn't speak english don't you think?

Surely you can understand that if someone says they don't want to work with asians "because they can't speak english" when they actually can, its a racial slur?

The girl's mother said: "She asked to be taken out of her group because the other five students were Asians and four didn't speak English so there was no point in her being with them. When she pointed this out to the teacher she was accused of being racist."

The girl was accused of being a "racist", but no one said she was wrong according to the reports I have seen.

Head Dr Antony Edkins said: "An allegation of a serious nature was made concerning a racially motivated remark by one student towards a group of Asian students new to the school and this country."

So if the other children could speak English, then the girl was a racist, but she'd have to be a liar as as well as a racist in that case. If they could, the Dr Edkins was in a good position to say so, but apparently he chose not to. Isn't that strange?

As for not bringing up concerns that your child isn't getting an education because the teacher's time is being spent with other children, I don't know of any decent parents who'd let that go without complaining to the school.

When it's an issue involving children of different races or cultures, it becomes so politically correct with some teachers that even "decent parents", or perhaps especially decent parents, fear to tread.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by freezin

The girl's mother said: "She asked to be taken out of her group because the other five students were Asians and four didn't speak English so there was no point in her being with them. When she pointed this out to the teacher she was accused of being racist."

The girl was accused of being a "racist", but no one said she was wrong according to the reports I have seen.

Head Dr Antony Edkins said: "An allegation of a serious nature was made concerning a racially motivated remark by one student towards a group of Asian students new to the school and this country."

So if the other children could speak English, then the girl was a racist, but she'd have to be a liar as as well as a racist in that case. If they could, the Dr Edkins was in a good position to say so, but apparently he chose not to. Isn't that strange?

Not when the reporting is up to the news paper.
I'm sure he actually said more than "An allegation of a serious nature was made concerning a racially motivated remark by one student towards a group of Asian students new to the school and this country" in fact he probably said nothing of the sort.
I know many people who've been misquoted by reporters to put a particular slant on the article, or to simply get across what they're saying in a more concise manner.
I also know of a complaint to the PCC regarding an article in a local Liverpool paper being upheld because the reporter had all his facts wrong making wild claims.

Notice the girls are not reportedly interviewed, the only suggestion they can't speak English is from the chastised girl's mother, who is likely to be relying on her daughter's opinion of the girls and trying to defend her rather than first hand knowledge of the girls involved.

Originally Posted by freezin

When it's an issue involving children of different races or cultures, it becomes so politically correct with some teachers that even "decent parents", or perhaps especially decent parents, fear to tread.

Rubbish. There is no way that saying your child is not getting the education they are entitled to because the teacher is having to spend all their time with other kids can be seen as anything other than a valid concern by a decent parent, unless that parent uses racist terms during the discussion with the school, in which case the parent is being racist.