smoking and the pub

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Bill C

Do you not have any non smoking pubs in your area.

Nope.
.....and even if we did, surely that is an infringement of my rights if I am forced to go only to those pubs if I want to have a smoke free drink.....ie. other people, through their dangerous habits are forcing me to avoid certain public places that I want to go to.

......and whil we are on the subject of non-smoking areas in pubs, I often see people smoking in those.......then I have to go and ask them not to smoke there, risking an altercation......I don't need the stress of that either.

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Nope.
.....and even if we did, surely that is an infringement of my rights if I am forced to go only to those pubs if I want to have a smoke free drink.....ie. other people, through their dangerous habits are forcing me to avoid certain public places that I want to go to.

......and whil we are on the subject of non-smoking areas in pubs, I often see people smoking in those.......then I have to go and ask them not to smoke there, risking an altercation......I don't need the stress of that either.

Well i dont live in a big city like london just a small town called warrington but we have no smoking pubs. I see for the first time we are ahead of london on something.

.

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Nope.
.....and even if we did, surely that is an infringement of my rights if I am forced to go only to those pubs if I want to have a smoke free drink.....ie. other people, through their dangerous habits are forcing me to avoid certain public places that I want to go to.

Why if those areas are there for you to be safe in, Do you want to go to one that might harm you ?

You have the right to go where you want.
You have the right to harm or not harm yourself.

I decide what i want to do no one else.

And they might be public places but only because the landlord lets you in. His place his rules.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by Salu

Even if I was blowing it down your throat?

Er no, I'd use my brain and go elsewhere, mind you, I could then waste loads of time complaining to others that do it on a forum for no apparent reason Besides, you've been told more than once now (something you failed to address) that if you don't like people smoking in a pub, take it up with the landlord because we're excercising our right to smoke in them.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Exactly! If I want to go to a pub, I can't because of smokers. They are doing something there that actively damages my health if I go there. How about if I was to go to a public place and spray a carcinogenic substance around on a regular basis the sole reason being that I find it relaxing and enjoyable to do so........unreasonable? Thats what smokers do...and then they say that if we don't like it we shouldn't be where they are!

Totally agree with this statement.............imagine the public out cry at your spraying you would most likely be arrested and locked away !

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Bill C

Well i dont live in a big city like london just a small town called warrington but we have no smoking pubs. I see for the first time we are ahead of london on something.

.

I'm sure that central London has non smoking pubs but here in the far-flung suburbs I'm not aware of any.

Originally Posted by Bill C

And they might be public places but only because the landlord lets you in. His place his rules.

thats the only part of your post I agree with......and with that we're back to the topic.....should landlords be allowed to allow smoking on their premises? Not if you want to protect people from the harmful effects of another persons habit in a public place where they have every right (or should have every right) to be in without having their health adversely (and inadvertently) affected.

[andygrif]

Or more to the point, should the government be allowed to tell the landlord what can or cannot happen in his pub?

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

I'm sure that central London has non smoking pubs but here in the far-flung suburbs I'm not aware of any.thats the only part of your post I agree with......and with that we're back to the topic.....should landlords be allowed to allow smoking on their premises? Not if you want to protect people from the harmful effects of another persons habit in a public place where they have every right (or should have every right) to be in without having their health adversely (and inadvertently) affected.

A pub is a business, chances are most of their trade comes from people who smoke, landlords are not stupid, they're not going to force smokers outside unless they absolutely have to (which suits me fine)

Smoking in pubs goes hand in hand with drinking.

If people want smoke free pubs then set some up let the 20% minority use them pubs and watch them go out of business because theres not enough trade.

A democracy is about going with the oppinion of the masses, therefore minority views should not be able to enforce this kind of legislation. Certainly provide smoke free rooms in pubs, yes stop people smoking at the bar (but I must say I have yet to see a reliable method for stopping the smoke going over the bar anyway, I'm sure it'll obey if asked nicely though). Many people use the pub go escape for a quick pint and a quick smoke.

Its my belief that if they actually researched this properly they would realise that its a non starter, the backlash of enforcing this kind of regulation would ruin major companies many of which probably financially support the government. The loss of employment within the industry would ruin New labours unemployment figures and taxes would have to be raised to support the new benefit claimants and to cover the lost revenue when people decide to give up smoking.

Either way taxes will go up, just faster if smoking revenue drops, tyhe NHS will still suffer because smoking isnt the only thing that can cause lung cancer, emphasema (Sp?) and many other nasty health issues these days, yet the NHS will still have to treat them. Many of these people will never have smoked in their lives.

To Tony Blair, Dont pass this legislation to get you kicked out of government, thats coming at the general election anyway matey.

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

Smoking in pubs goes hand in hand with drinking.



Either way taxes will go up, just faster if smoking revenue drops, tyhe NHS will still suffer because smoking isnt the only thing that can cause lung cancer, emphasema (Sp?) and many other nasty health issues these days, yet the NHS will still have to treat them. Many of these people will never have smoked in their lives.

To Tony Blair, Dont pass this legislation to get you kicked out of government, thats coming at the general election anyway matey.

This bit is the main reason why they will not ban fags and smoking in pubs. Votes +More TAX due to loss of sales = Kicked out at next election

[ZrByte]

Originally Posted by Bifta

Do you see any smokers complaining about the risk of contracting lung cancer?

Nope, but then I also see many smokers who would gladly cut thier nose off to spite thier face if it meant they could keep smoking, regardless of its effects on them and those around them.

Originally Posted by Bifta

The whole point is that pubs are a hive for smokers, non-smokers are complaining that they don't want to go to a pub full of smoke, but that's all they do ... complain! To the wrong people! What do they think we're going to do? Stop smoking to shut them up?

Pubs are a hive for Drinkers, not smokers, it just so happens that for those with adictive personalities the two habits are hard to sepperate.
Personally I have never complained about a smoker smoking in a pub, with the exception of one person smoking a cigar in the non-smoking resturant part of the pub.
Also in my experience we non-smokers complain about smoking no more than smokers do when stuck on a non-smoking flight, bus, pub, resurant, shop, etc.

Originally Posted by Bifta

Yeah, we're infinately more interesting than them liberal whining tosspot anti-smokers who's only enjoyment in life is to make others miserable.

I thought that was a smokers job?
And Damn straight your interesting, I find it fascinating watching someone with yellow hands (or at least fingers), a reduced sense of smell & taste and hair that smells moderatly like the aftermath of a forrest fire, poisoning themselves and those in proximity, denying the effects that this habbit is having on them yet they cant see the addiction, wich is an effect in itself.

BTW im getting out of this thread before I get too deep into it, Im not going to get myself worked up like I did in the last anti-smoking thread. And I also noticed that it looks like im picking on Bifta, its nothing personal mate but you summed up the points I wanted to counter the best.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by ZrByte

Nope, but then I also see many smokers who would gladly cut thier nose off to spite thier face if it meant they could keep smoking, regardless of its effects on them and those around them.

So that'd be a no then!

Pubs are a hive for Drinkers, not smokers, it just so happens that for those with adictive personalities the two habits are hard to sepperate.

So what are you saying? You become addicted to smoking then you're suddenly an alcoholic, because you and I both know that's complete sh*t.

Personally I have never complained about a smoker smoking in a pub, with the exception of one person smoking a cigar in the non-smoking resturant part of the pub.

So why are you complaining on here when there's no-one breathing smoke in your face?

Also in my experience we non-smokers complain about smoking no more than smokers do when stuck on a non-smoking flight, bus, pub, resurant, shop, etc.

I've never heard anyone complain on a bus, in a shop, and only a retarded smoker would complain if they forced themself to go to a non smoking pub. Flights are a different matter, smokers moan then because of nicotine withdrawal on long flights .. as opposed to some non-smokers who just moan because they've nothing better to think about.

I find it fascinating watching someone with yellow hands

I don't (neither does my partner) have yellow hands (or fingers), we've been smoking approx 20 years a peice too, but then I don't smoke roll ups like an old man ...

a reduced sense of smell & taste

I can't say it's had any detrimental effect that I've noticed.

and hair that smells moderatly like the aftermath of a forrest fire

Some of us are capable of washing our hair on a daily basis.

poisoning themselves and those in proximity

A bit like car drivers then.

denying the effects that this habbit is having on them yet they cant see the addiction, wich is an effect in itself.

I enjoy smoking and I know there are possible long term effects

BTW im getting out of this thread before I get too deep into it, Im not going to get myself worked up like I did in the last anti-smoking thread.

I'm wondering what the point of you posting in this thread was if you're going to post your argument and run, should I add a "lack of balls" to the moaning anti-smoker brigades flaws?

And I also noticed that it looks like im picking on Bifta, its nothing personal mate but you summed up the points I wanted to counter the best.

You'll have to try a hell of a lot harder before I feel victimised.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by andygrif

Or more to the point, should the government be allowed to tell the landlord what can or cannot happen in his pub?

Absolutely, I don't think they should.........

Originally Posted by Bifta

A pub is a business, chances are most of their trade comes from people who smoke, landlords are not stupid, they're not going to force smokers outside unless they absolutely have to (which suits me fine)

Ditto.....

I am not that far up my own a*se that I think that non-smokers have a god given right to have all pubs made smoke free but I do wish that smokers scrupulously observed no smoking areas when they are in them.
I also wish that smokers would acknowledge that their habit actively bars us non-smokers from entering places that we ideally should be able to go into without being affected by someone elses antisocial actions there.
Finally, smokers shouldn't complain about non smokers complaining.....after all, it's not us non-smokers who are actively doing the thing that harms. It's a bit like muggers complaining that their victims are complaining about being mugged.......and using the excuse that the victims shouldn't actually go to the places where the muggers hang out!

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Absolutely, I don't think they should.........Ditto.....

I am not that far up my own a*se that I think that non-smokers have a god given right to have all pubs made smoke free but I do wish that smokers scrupulously observed no smoking areas when they are in them.

I, and every smoker I know, always respect non-smoking areas, I, however, have had to endure non-smokers bitching at me when they are sitting in the SMOKING area of a restaurant.

I also wish that smokers would acknowledge that their habit actively bars us non-smokers from entering places that we ideally should be able to go into without being affected by someone elses antisocial actions there.

That's absolute crap, the owner of the establishment is barring you, not the smokers, as I've said more than once, if you feel you can't go to your local pub, complain to the landlord, not to us.

Finally, smokers shouldn't complain about non smokers complaining.....after all, it's not us non-smokers who are actively doing something that harms.

So, because we smoke, we're not allowed to point out persistant whiners? Meh!

It's a bit like muggers complaining that their victims are complaining about being mugged

It's absolutely nothing like it whatsoever.

[ZrByte]

Originally Posted by Bifta

So that'd be a no then!

I think I made my point quite clear.

Originally Posted by bifta

So what are you saying? You become addicted to smoking then you're suddenly an alcoholic, because you and I both know that's complete sh*t.

What are you talking about? I didnt say that all smokers are alcoholics though statisticly a heavy drinker is more likeley to have an adictive personality and someone with an adictive personality is more likley to pick up other adictive habits such as smoking and vice versa.

Originally Posted by bifta

So why are you complaining on here when there's no-one breathing smoke in your face?

why are you on here complaining if you smokers never moan and its always us blah, blah, blah, <generic smoker comment> blah, blah, blah non-smokers who complain?

Originally Posted by bifta

I've never heard anyone complain on a bus, in a shop, and only a retarded smoker would complain if they forced themself to go to a non smoking pub. Flights are a different matter, smokers moan then because of nicotine withdrawal on long flights .. as opposed to some non-smokers who just moan because they've nothing better to think about.

yes but then apparently ignorance is bliss, you probably dont notice because you spend as little time as possible in any of these places trying to get outside to get your next fix.

Originally Posted by bifta

I don't (neither does my partner) have yellow hands (or fingers), we've been smoking approx 20 years a peice too, but then I don't smoke roll ups like an old man ...



I can't say it's had any detrimental effect that I've noticed.



Some of us are capable of washing our hair on a daily basis.

Well you appear to be immune to all other aspects of smoking so why not the rest I suppose

Originally Posted by bifta

A bit like car drivers then.

If they park thier car in the pub with the engine running then you might have a point, sadly you dont.

Originally Posted by bifta

I enjoy smoking and I know there are possible long term effects

I wouldnt worry about it, your immune to all the effects of smoking apparently, carry on regardless you'll be fine.

Originally Posted by bifta

I'm wondering what the point of you posting in this thread was if you're going to post your argument and run, should I add a "lack of balls" to the moaning anti-smoker brigades flaws?

Textbook case of a verbal attack on someone questioning an adiction that you have no reasonable explination or argument for doing.
I planned to stay out of this thread for exactly this reason, I dont come on here to get annoyed and ive gone and done exaclty that, I plan to follow the thread until we all get tired of banging our heads on the wall but I wont be posting in it again.