Riots

[eto]

Number of signatures: 109,127

thats is NOT a million signatures

[danielf]

Originally Posted by martyh

the little money that the dole gives them will only account for a small part of their income. Those who are career claimants don't just get dole ,they live mainly on the proceeds from crime eg drugs ,robbery ect so stopping their dole won't make that much difference to them financialy. Also quite a few don't even bother claiming because they earn enough from their criminal activities to not have to ,instead they shack up with some bird who gets housing benefit so they have somewhere to live for free and stay off the benefits radar so not having the inconvenience of having to look for work to keep benefits.
Stopping the rioters benefits will make the honest tax payer feel a lot better but won't make that much difference to the career claimant/criminal

Well, first off. Those who aren't on benefits won't be affected.

Secondly, I'm still wondering what the background of these people is. I have absolutely no time for the mindless thugs that are simply in it for the money and kicks. However, I also wonder about the extent to which there is genuine resentment that breeds this kind of behaviour. Watching Question Time, someone asked: why does this stuff never happen in Norway or Sweden? And the answer that was given was: because it's a more egalitarian society. Having grown up in Holland, I think there's a lot of truth in that. There are a number of deprived areas in Holland, but they are nothing like the sink estates we have here. I'd be very surprised to see this type of thing kick off in the likes of Sweden, Norway, Holland or Germany. They're more egalitarian societies, where you don't get the levels of deprivation that you get in the UK.

That's not to say that deprivation is an excuse. Just saying that deprivation is likely to be a catalyst. If you make people live in ghettos, people will revolt.

Either way: this honest tax payer is not going to feel a lot better by what he considers a kneejerk populist reaction that is likely to do little more than placate the public's blood lust and will likely increase crime rates. Thankfully, it's not going to happen.

Originally Posted by eto

Number of signatures: 109,127

thats is NOT a million signatures

Either way, someone got told...

Oh snap!

[Jimmy-J]

Richard Mannington Bowes dies...

A 68-year-old man who was critically injured as he tried he tried to stamp out a fire during riots in west London has died, Scotland Yard has said.

Richard Mannington Bowes suffered head injuries in an attack in Ealing on Monday night and was left in a coma.

Police have launched a murder inquiry and issued a CCTV image of a suspect.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14500869

R.I.P Richard Mannington Bowes.

It was mentioned this in a debate and I cannot remember where I watched this now but they were talking about how some of these rioters are turning up at court, dressed in the full blown chav gear, tracksuits and the like. Kinda shows the lack of respect for authority, when criminals show up in normal every day wears.

[denphone]

Another very sad episode l am afraid from these riots.

R.I.P Richard Mannington Bowes

[colin25]

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/news...day.6817234.jp
Courts getting tough

[watzizname]

So they killed a 68 year old man for little more than having the courage to try and do the right thing.

I seriously hope someone else finds these tards before the police, and saves the authorities and tax payers further time, effort and money dealing with them.

They are pond ****, and as such don't deserve to be afforded the civilised route of due process.

Originally Posted by Mick

R.I.P Richard Mannington Bowes.

It was mentioned this in a debate and I cannot remember where I watched this now but they were talking about how some of these rioters are turning up at court, dressed in the full blown chav gear, tracksuits and the like. Kinda shows the lack of respect for authority, when criminals show up in normal every day wears.

I honestly think they are too stupid to understand they should wear anything else, rather than a lack of respect. That said I think they are too stupid to understand what respect is either, other than some shallow definition they apply to their criminal cohorts.

[Russ]

I get the impression they feel going to jail is just an occupational hazard and anyone going down was just "unlucky" to get caught.

Originally Posted by martyh

the little money that the dole gives them will only account for a small part of their income .Those who are career claimants don't just get dole ,they live mainly on the proceeds from crime eg drugs ,robbery ect so stopping their dole won't make that much difference to them financialy .Also quite a few don't even bother claiming because they earn enough from their criminal activities to not have to ,instead they shack up with some bird who gets housing benefit so they have somewhere to live for free and stay off the benefits radar so not having the inconvenience of having to look for work to keep benefits.
Stopping the rioters benefits will make the honest tax payer feel a lot better but won't make that much difference to the career claimant/criminal

I don't think all, or even most, of the looters were career criminals. They acted with criminal intent, they have committed a crime, and they are indeed now 'criminals' but in a lot of cases I think they were simply opportunistic and stupid. A career criminal would undoubtedly act with more careful and measured intent, concealing their faces, their tracks, and ensures the more violent element bore the blunt of attention.

MPs won't revoke benefits for those found guilty. It's too drastic and if the violent scenes of the last week had it's seeds in the poverty and social exclusion found in deprived areas then increasing that divide isn't going to make matters better.

None of which excuses the criminals. They didn't want to make a political point about not having much of a future or stake in society, they didn't want to make a point about poverty, or a mutual lack of respect between 'them' and the rest of society. They just wanted to steal and burn. They alone are responsible for their actions.

However we must address the root causes in order to stop future generations falling into the same situation. As well as dealing with those that fall foul of these crimes facing suitable punishments.

---------- Post added at 08:31 ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 ----------

Originally Posted by danielf

Secondly, I'm still wondering what the background of these people is. I have absolutely no time for the mindless thugs that are simply in it for the money and kicks. However, I also wonder about the extent to which there is genuine resentment that breeds this kind of behaviour. Watching Question Time, someone asked: why does this stuff never happen in Norway or Sweden? And the answer that was given was: because it's a more egalitarian society. Having grown up in Holland, I think there's a lot of truth in that. There are a number of deprived areas in Holland, but they are nothing like the sink estates we have here. I'd be very surprised to see this type of thing kick off in the likes of Sweden, Norway, Holland or Germany. They're more egalitarian societies, where you don't get the levels of deprivation that you get in the UK.

That's not to say that deprivation is an excuse. Just saying that deprivation is likely to be a catalyst. If you make people live in ghettos, people will revolt.

Completely agree. Again, never to excuse their behaviour. It was neither an excuse or even their motivation. Instead it's a possible cause into how these people came to be like this, what corrupted them to the point they became a feral criminal mob.

[colin25]

I was brought up in that type of circumstances, limited resources, estate.

I never thought about mugging someone, stealing etc

My parents taught me right from wrong, and whilst I may have skirted the grey area occassionally, I know the difference.

Most are now children of parents who equally were never taught discipline..80s and 90s where discipline was a dirty word in schools and society are now coming home to roost.

How can we expect people to be good parents, when they themselves were allowed to run feral

[denphone]

Originally Posted by colin25

I was brought up in that type of circumstances, limited resources, estate.

I never thought about mugging someone, stealing etc

My parents taught me right from wrong, and whilst I may have skirted the grey area occassionally, I know the difference.

Most are now children of parents who equally were never taught discipline..80s and 90s where discipline was a dirty word in schools and society are now coming home to roost.

How can we expect people to be good parents, when they themselves were allowed to run feral

l agree exactly with your sentiments as l was bought up in a rough area but l was taught right from wrong from a early age and yes l was in trouble a couple of times and was punished for those mis-behaviors but l never did it again because my parents made sure of that with good discipline.

Article Source: Weekend of London riots leaves city devastated by looting

Social networking sites have become breeding grounds for grave crimes such as these. What has the world gone into?! And Have you guys read about the infamous set of hackers that is about to bring apocalyptic end to all social networking sites such as Facebook? They said that it's gonna end at November 5th. What do you think about all of this?! Everything on the world of Net has gone completely mad!

[Sparkle]

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...ow/9565811.cms

---------- Post added at 11:12 ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 ----------

Met Police confirm that should riots threaten London's fashion district they will adopt a size zero tolerance.

In other news, Colonel Gaddafi says Libya now recognising London rioters as legitimate UK government.