2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll - Page 64

Escapee · 10-05-2010, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Thank you for reminding me that the BNP bombed in the General Election, and lost 26 of the council seats they contested - that cheered me up no end.

My vote was to get rid of the local Labour MP.

My vote did not go to the BNP candidate, it went to an independant who didn't do as well as I hoped. I don't think the Independent candidate would have been very good as our MP, but it was all about voting Labour out.

I was surprised that Conservative did as well as they did in my area, although they were still miles behind Labour. With the high levels of people on benefits and the 16 hour a week workers topped up with credits in these valleys, Labour have many fans here.

**Hugh** · 10-05-2010, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by LondonRoad

That's one way of looking at it. I'd be disappointed if they made a decision without examining every option. It's an important decision for Clegg and the liberals.

It could cost them dearly if the general public perceive them to be opportunist. Alternatively their credibility could increase greatly if their decision is perceived to be based on their desire to serve the country.

Funny, I thought they said they would give first chance to the party with the most votes and seats - talking to someone else at the same time doesn't sound like doing that to me.

Tezcatlipoca · 10-05-2010, 22:13

Oh, & re the ERS' "what if we used AV or STV" study linked to earlier in the thread...

http://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/blog/?p=36

http://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/n...p?ex=0&nid=469

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electoral Reform Society

(snip)

Points:

* STV http://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/article.php?id=48 would address the regional imbalance under FPTP that prevents either Labour or Conservatives being National Parties. Conservatives would have healthy representation in the North, Labour in the South

o Conservatives would have 7 MPs in Scotland, and would have parity with the Liberal Democrats in Wales with 10 MPs a piece.

o Labour’s share of Scottish seats would be reduced from from 41 to 28, with gains to SNP and Conservatives. They would also see a revival in the SE, SW and particularly the East of England where their supporters struggle to make inroads under FPTP.

o Liberal Democrats would build on their strength in all regions, particularly the SW and SE

* AV http://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/article.php?id=55 would prove a very modest reform, with second preferences having minimal impact at this election.

o Significant regional imbalances would remain between main parties.

o Liberal Democrats would only gain an additional 22 seats compared to FPTP.

o Neither Labour nor Conservatives would not benefit significantly from transfers based on 2010’s vote.

(snip)

**Damien** · 10-05-2010, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Funny, I thought they said they would give first chance to the party with the most votes and seats - talking to someone else at the same time doesn't sound like doing that to me.

They did open discussions with them first, 3/4 days worth in fact!

Anyway with this offer of AV I think they need to decide tonight to back the Conservatives and get this party started

I think my favorite result would be an elected 2nd chamber. My main concern at the moment is the lack of balance when a party has a majority. Open season for them to pass crazy laws with the House of Lords being somewhat limited in their ability to vote things down (I know they have recently but as an unelected body it makes it difficult).

This could be done via PR. I would like to do the senate thing in America, so 1/3rd of the house up for election every 2 years, helps protect against both houses coming up for election at the same time and therefore prone to political opportunism and would prevent election cycle giving a party complete control.

ashgray · 10-05-2010, 22:15

[QUOTE=Russ;35018606]OK please humour me and tell me why you think they wouldn't like me because for the life of me I have no idea. I'm as British as you presumably are so why would they not like me?

i'm afraid i'll not rise to your bait russ so you and your moderator chums can ban me from this forum,but i'm sure you know like i know why the bnp don't like people like you.

Tezcatlipoca · 10-05-2010, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Except AV (what GB offered in the manifesto) and fixed term parliaments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Yeah, but they offered that after the Lib Dems decided to open talks with Labour.

Yup, which could only happen after Brown said he'd go. I think Brown's resignation may have stirred things up at Tory high command, as him staying put was the main obstacle to a Lib-Lab deal.

---------- Post added at 22:16 ---------- Previous post was at 22:15 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Anyway with this offer of AV I think they need to decide tonight to back the Conservatives and get this party started

Indeed. Someone needs to hurry up and Activate The Queen!

Escapee · 10-05-2010, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt D

A
Well, tbh, with our electoral system & under our (unwritten) constitution, what the majority of the country wants or does not want is fairly irrelevant, given that we do not have a system which is particularly proportional...

I don't know how you feel about FPTP, but I think that no-one who is a fan of FPTP can really, at the same time, also complain that the Tories should be in power, or have a right to be in power, simply because the majority voted against the alternative. It's a bit hypocritical IMO (I'm not saying you are, btw

).
.

I am just sick to death of a system where my vote doesn't count, every time I vote in a general election it's a wasted vote.

Labour have such a majority in this area that I can never see them loosing in my lifetime, no matter how bad they are.

danielf · 10-05-2010, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielf

I'm not sure if AV is going to be good enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt D

tbh, it is for me... it is hardly ideal, & as Chris said it isn't actually PR, but I think it is a step in the right direction. I can't see the Lib Dems getting anything better out of the Tories or Labour & I think they should concede that it's a fair compromise for now.

Well, I think they should try to get more out of it as it seems to me that electoral reform won't be on the agenda for a while after this. If they agree to a half-baked compromise now and try to get more at a later date it won't look very good. Having said that, the Tories don't look likely to give them any more.

I should add that my preference right now is for a Lib/Con coalition, as the numbers for Lib/Lab are just too soft.

Russ · 10-05-2010, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashgray

i'm afraid i'll not rise to your bait russ so you and your moderator chums can ban me from this forum,but i'm sure you know like i know why the bnp don't like people like you.

I'm white, British and have 6 generations of the same going back through my ancestors so I have no idea what you're on about unless you're suggesting the BNP don't like the Welsh?

punky · 10-05-2010, 22:19

The Lib Dems are peeing me off now.

The country continues to go to pot, The Tories want to get things started righting recession, deficit, unemployment... And all the Lib Dems care about is making sure they can feather their nests by forcing an AV voting system on the public.

Priorities, priorities.

ashgray · 10-05-2010, 22:23

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

I'm white, British and have 6 generations of the same going back through my ancestors so I have no idea what you're on about unless you're suggesting the BNP don't like the Welsh?

i think you do because i don't believe your as dumb as your trying to make out you are.

danielf · 10-05-2010, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

The Lib Dems are peeing me off now.

The country continues to go to pot, The Tories want to get things started righting recession, deficit, unemployment... And all the Lib Dems care about is making sure they can feather their nests by forcing an AV voting system on the public.

Priorities, priorities.

So they should just roll over and accept there will be no or very limited change to a voting system that is a massive disadvantage to them?

This is a time that could make a massive difference to them, and it's not at all clear when they get the next opportunity. I'm not at all surprised they are taking their time.

Russ · 10-05-2010, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashgray

i think you do because i don't believe your as dumb as your trying to make out you are.

Hand on heart I have no idea what you're suggesting and I'm pretty certain no-one else knows either.

ashgray · 10-05-2010, 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Hand on heart I have no idea what you're suggesting and I'm pretty certain no-one else knows either.

I beg to differ so lets leave it at that then boyo.

**Damien** · 10-05-2010, 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

The Lib Dems are peeing me off now.

The country continues to go to pot, The Tories want to get things started righting recession, deficit, unemployment... And all the Lib Dems care about is making sure they can feather their nests by forcing an AV voting system on the public.

Priorities, priorities.

The Tories want to form a government with giving the Liberal Democrats as little as possible, The Lib Dems want to be part of a government and want as much as possible. They are bargaining.

I state this again. Despite what Tory Supporters may think, The Tories do not have a clear mandate to govern and must make compromises in order to do so. I love the idea of portaying the idea of PR as somehow a undemocratic power-grab, there are reasons to oppose it but it is more democratic than the current system, people get the parliament they voted for. Seems fair to me.