Post-Brexit Thread

Originally Posted by ntluser

Maybe we could look at what manufactured goods we currently import and see which of those we can manufacture ourselves.

We import them because it's much cheaper to do so.

Originally Posted by Hugh

We import them because it's much cheaper to do so.

and maybe post Brexit it will be cheaper to make them given the extortionate tariffs expected from remainers

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by denphone

As Hugh says its not as simple as many think to build up our manufacturing base again against such fierce competition and lower prices abroad.

There was once a time when Britain used to be the workshop of the world but we priced ourselves out of the market with the result that we were superseded by China, Taiwan etc.

Because we bought from these countries they were able to build up their manufacturing base at the expense of ours so our manufacturing base declined. Cheapness of price is not everything.

If we want a return to manufacturing in Britain and the jobs associated with it we will have to get back to the habit of "Buying British" and being prepared to pay a little more bearing in mind that British companies will be paying UK tax which can be re-invested in our manufacturing base. It also puts the onus on British manufacturers coming up with creative ranges of well designed, high quality, high value products at an affordable price.

It will no doubt take some time but China's rise to power did not happen overnight nor should that deter us from trying to rebuild our manufacturing base.

In the beginning it may well be that instead of large, expensive factories we use a cottage industry style of development with small units being run on economic lines. Or we could combine a human work force with an automated one etc.

We could start with small products like nails, of which we import quite a lot though there may well be larger products worthy of manufacture. Much of the development will come from entrepreneurs coming up with creative ways of adding value to a product at a low cost, using creative designs and innovation for example.

We can make our products more desirable to others in terms of cost if we sell to our home market at a slightly higher price that that used for exports.

The whole point is that if we do not make a start on rebuilding our manufacturing base we will always have an unbalanced economy totally reliant on the success of financial services. Diversification is the way that we reduce risk so that if one part of the economy fails we do not take a major hit.

It also helps us to reduce and redress our balance of trade so that we are less dependant on others for our goods and services.

[Big Brian]

What happened to democracy and majority rules? Thousands of pro-EU people gather in London to March to Parliament Square. They want us to remain in the EU and I don't think they realise the consequences of their actions. Anarchy could break out among the Leavers. There could be battles in the streets if the Government give in and either not invoke Article 50 or hold another referendum.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

What happened to democracy and majority rules? Thousands of pro-EU people gather in London to March to Parliament Square. They want us to remain in the EU and I don't think they realise the consequences of their actions. Anarchy could break out among the Leavers. There could be battles in the streets if the Government give in and either not invoke Article 50 or hold another referendum.

London's not big on democracy .

[denphone]

Originally Posted by ntluser

There was once a time when Britain used to be the workshop of the world but we priced ourselves out of the market with the result that we were superseded by China, Taiwan etc.

Because we bought from these countries they were able to build up their manufacturing base at the expense of ours so our manufacturing base declined. Cheapness of price is not everything.

If we want a return to manufacturing in Britain and the jobs associated with it we will have to get back to the habit of "Buying British" and being prepared to pay a little more bearing in mind that British companies will be paying UK tax which can be re-invested in our manufacturing base. It also puts the onus on British manufacturers coming up with creative ranges of well designed, high quality, high value products at an affordable price.

It will no doubt take some time but China's rise to power did not happen overnight nor should that deter us from trying to rebuild our manufacturing base.

In the beginning it may well be that instead of large, expensive factories we use a cottage industry style of development with small units being run on economic lines. Or we could combine a human work force with an automated one etc.

We could start with small products like nails, of which we import quite a lot though there may well be larger products worthy of manufacture. Much of the development will come from entrepreneurs coming up with creative ways of adding value to a product at a low cost, using creative designs and innovation for example.

We can make our products more desirable to others in terms of cost if we sell to our home market at a slightly higher price that that used for exports.

The whole point is that if we do not make a start on rebuilding our manufacturing base we will always have an unbalanced economy totally reliant on the success of financial services. Diversification is the way that we reduce risk so that if one part of the economy fails we do not take a major hit.

It also helps us to reduce and redress our balance of trade so that we are less dependant on others for our goods and services.

A interesting post ntl as there are many things there which l agree with but personally l think its going to be very hard to build up the huge manufacturing base we once had sadly.

Originally Posted by denphone

A interesting post ntl as there are many things there which l agree with but personally l think its going to be very hard to build up the huge manufacturing base we once had sadly.

And tbf, our huge manufacturing base depended on our Empire for resources and as a market.

Originally Posted by Hugh

And tbf, our huge manufacturing base depended on our Empire for resources and as a market.

The British empire did more for the world than the Romans ever did. But the Romans are deemed to of had a positive effect on the world. An the British empire negative.

Of course Nazi Germany must be ignored/forgotten about.

Originally Posted by RBMark

Of course Nazi Germany must be ignored/forgotten about.

Yes, because Hitler was doing so well until he allowed Stalin to talk him into invading Poland.

Go on, tell us ... are you a Nazi sympathiser?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by RBMark

The British empire did more for the world than the Romans ever did. But the Romans are deemed to of had a positive effect on the world. An the British empire negative.

Maybe it is because of things like this?

5 of the worst atrocities carried out by the British Empire

Boer concentration camps

During the Second Boer War (1899-1902), the British rounded up around a sixth of the Boer population - mainly women and children - and detained them in camps, which were overcrowded and prone to outbreaks of disease, with scant food rations.

Of the 107,000 people interned in the camps, 27,927 Boers died, along with an unknown number of black Africans.

Amritsar massacre

The soldiers, under the orders of Brigadier Reginald Dyer, kept firing until they ran out of ammunition, killing between 379 and 1,000 protesters and injuring another 1,100 within 10 minutes.

Brigadier Dyer was later lauded a hero by the British public, who raised £26,000 for him as a thank you.

Partitioning of India

After Cyril Radcliffe split the subcontinent along religious lines, uprooting over 10 million people, Hindus in Pakistan and Muslims in India were forced to escape their homes as the situation quickly descended into violence.

Some estimates suggest up to one million people lost their lives in sectarian killings.

Mau Mau Uprising

Thousands of elderly Kenyans, who claim British colonial forces mistreated,
raped and tortured them during the Mau Mau Uprising (1951-1960), have launched a £200m damages claim against the UK Government.

Members of the Kikuyu tribe were detained in camps, since described as "Britain's gulags" or concentration camps, where they allege they were systematically tortured and suffered serious sexual assault.

Estimates of the deaths vary widely: historian David Anderson estimates there were 20,000, whereas Caroline Elkins believes up to 100,000 could have died.

Famines in India

In 1943, up to four million Bengalis starved to death when Winston Churchill diverted food to British soldiers and countries such as Greece while a deadly famine swept through Bengal.

Talking about the Bengal famine in 1943, Churchill said: “I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion. The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits.”

Originally Posted by Hugh

And tbf, our huge manufacturing base depended on our Empire for resources and as a market.

It's all a bit pie in the sky anyway we'll have to wait and see what happens with the next government .What i do know though is that if someone sees a profit in making stuff they will usually do it especially if the government of the day gives the right incentives.

[richard s]

My faith and trust in politicians has hit an all time low... what a back stabbing bunch we have.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by richard s

My faith and trust in politicians has hit an all time low... what a back stabbing bunch we have.

You had some faith and trust

[Hom3r]

Never trust a politician if you see their lips move.

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by denphone

A interesting post ntl as there are many things there which l agree with but personally l think its going to be very hard to build up the huge manufacturing base we once had sadly.

Thanks for that. I agree it's going to be hard and it's likely that manufacturing may not exist to the same extent that it did before, but like any long journey or great enterprise it all begins by taking the first step.

---------- Post added at 06:25 ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

And tbf, our huge manufacturing base depended on our Empire for resources and as a market.

That's perfectly true and highlights what we need to do to restore our manufacturing.

The world has moved on and we may not be able to do things in the same way as we did before but no country has a monopoly on everything which is why we have to trade.

---------- Post added at 06:46 ---------- Previous post was at 06:25 ----------

Originally Posted by Big Brian

What happened to democracy and majority rules? Thousands of pro-EU people gather in London to March to Parliament Square. They want us to remain in the EU and I don't think they realise the consequences of their actions. Anarchy could break out among the Leavers. There could be battles in the streets if the Government give in and either not invoke Article 50 or hold another referendum.

I think that's why we have to come up with a solution that all voters can live with.

It's no use invoking Article 50 without getting things in place to re-assure people that we have working deals in place. We live in a democracy and so people on both sides of the argument can air their views or march peacefully and lawfully if they wish.

The battles in the street may come if we leave the EU but fail to set up deals elsewhere, but such battles tend to be counter-productive as the case of Syria demonstrates. After all when you destroy the infrastructure and manufacturing base of your own country you are essentially shooting yourself in the foot and destroying your own society.

In making deals we need to let the good things remain and leave the bad things out.

---------- Post added at 07:05 ---------- Previous post was at 06:46 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

It's all a bit pie in the sky anyway we'll have to wait and see what happens with the next government .What i do know though is that if someone sees a profit in making stuff they will usually do it especially if the government of the day gives the right incentives.

I think you are right. How the government reacts now will be crucial but be in no doubt that the Brexit will have consequences worldwide and at home.

The old British store has closed down and people are waiting to see what the new one has to offer. We are in the "Opening Soon" period and we are all waiting to see what deals can be made. Hopefully, it's one good enough to keep the UK united as I for one would be sorry if Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales left.