Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges

[bob_a_builder]

Any one know what is a reasonable amount of interest

of the order of 8% is allowed by the small claims court.

and when you lodge claim on Small claims count web site, it prompts if you want to claim interest, since some specifc text has to be added to your claim which it will do automatically

On the CAG site. in the Bank Action Group section they have a spread sheet to assist working out interest which applies + lots more people going thru same issues. have a look your banks bound to have a sub forum - the're all at it, overcharging that is
Although body of your letter looks familair so maybe you are already aware of that site

I've just lodged my claim into the courts, having heard nothing from bank in response to ANY of my letters on this matter, lest see if that gets their attention

[Chrysalis]

I have decided to go ahead with this as my bank today ****ed me of royally big time.

Basically I deposited 2 payments into my bank on the 23rd may via online transaction from another bank.

I have a standing order that goes out on the 2nd june.

So 7 working days prior to the standing order.

It is now 7th june and one of the deposits is in my account, the other one (larger) still nowhere to be seen, the other bank informed me it was marked as cleared their end on thursday 1st june so meaning it should have been sitting in my account on that date.

So because of this 2 events have occured, the bank is earning interest on my cash while it sits in limbo in their clearance system, I have been charged £35 for a unpaid standing order, for a measly £9 shortfall on funds.

I went to my branch asking them to clear the standing order on the basis the uncleared funds are (a) excessive time uncleared through no fault of my own and (b) the source of the funds is regurly used and has never bounced, they refused. I was even depositing a cheque that day as well from a source that has never bounced so I now currently have a very large amount of money (way larger then £9) waiting to be cleared and a standing order not paid.

The bank is Lloyds TSB and I have noticed recently they are incredibly slow, cheques usually take over a week to clear, my sister says in her bank they 1-3 days and for me its 5-7 working days. If I use a cash machine or buy something on my debit card it doesnt show on my statement for 1-3 days instead of the expected instantly so their entire system seems lagged.

I rang them up yesterday demanding the fee been waived and asked for an overdraft increase, no to both, so I told them they wont cooperate and as a result to expect a letter from me asking for 6 years of charges been refunded, the guy was ignorant saying they are not illegal and good luck to me but I will get nowhere then he hung up on me.

Now I will probably proceed with my claim and instead of counting all the charges up even tho I have most of my statements stored, I will probably ask them to provide the charges to me.

However I am concerned that after they pay out they turn around and say we no longer want to do business with you and closing your accounts, please pay of all outstanding debts (I have a loan and cancelled credit card balance) within X days to avoid debt collectors.

Is there any kind of protection to stop banks simply closing accounts for people claiming back their charges? since that customer will simply be not profitable for the bank anymore apart from interest on any debts so the bank will want to get rid.

[etccarmageddon]

I think if they attempted to recall the loan like that then firstly you'd write to them and point out you are continuing the monthly repayments and secondly you'd go through their complaints procedure followed by the banking ombudsman. there's no way a bank would try it on.

move to the nationwide - I was with tsb up until 20 years ago. they were my first bank. I was promised free banking then one day they put £14 worth of charges on my account for regular stuff like cash machine withdrawals and denyed that I was ever told it was free. This was when I was earning £40 a week. then a few years later nationwide started their current account which also paid interest.

[Chrysalis]

I was there in the TSB days and to be fair then it was a very good bank, its when Lloyds tookover that things went downhill, Lloyds strike me as very greedy.

Not sure if moving bank would be too clever tho, would they give a new customer like me a debit card + overdraft facility who never used them before and I seem to have bad credit since every credit check done on me doesnt bode well, it also looks worse on my record that I have been with my bank for short time instead of 9 years.

[etccarmageddon]

alliance and leicester are closing the current accounts of those that do claim - they have to give 30 days notice.

[Druchii]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

alliance and leicester are closing the current accounts of those that do claim - they have to give 30 days notice.

I knew it would happen, but shouldn't it be a simple as just transferring somewhere else?

[etccarmageddon]

yes but for some of the people here transferring isn't possible because their credit rating isn't good.

[Pia]

I'm not sure i totally understand this...

So, charging is illegal, so why are they still doing it? How come one of them regulation companies haven't put a stop to it?
And how come they are allowed to close the bank accounts of people that claim?

[handyman]

I don't understand but rack up another £715 on my claim from my current account.
That will go in the post tommorow

[Mr Angry]

For those taking (or considering) legal action to recover charges:

It is a wise move to open an account with somewhere like the Woolwich before you take your current bank to the cleaners. The Woolwich are "pretty cool" about new customers and don't do credit checks on many new customer accounts (depending on the type of account facility required). With many new accounts they also offer to rearrange all your Direct Debits, Standing Orders etc free of charge for you.

Some banks are getting a bit stroppy with customers who successfully claim (ie. everyone who has claimed to date) and are closing some successful applicants accounts. The legality of such actions are currently being looked into and I'm pretty sure that they'll have to stop doing this in the near future or face further legal action from customers (if not Government - who are hell bent on everyone having a bank account so they can keep tabs on all of us).

There is no legal (or logical) argument for any bank to close an account simply because the account holder has won a claim against them. The argument most commonly put forward is that the bank feel that the account is not "profitable" or "incorrectly managed". This is an interesting, if fundamentally flawed, defence of their actions.

Over the past few years the Government (bless 'em) have moved over 93% of benefit payments to BACS / EFT and benefit receipients must have a bank account to receive payments. Additionally, benefit receipient accounts are, on instruction from Government, to be treated differently from the accounts of working individuals in order that the socially disadvantaged are not further penalized by bank charges.

This raises the issues of equality and discrimination (yes, the old chestnut of human rights). I'm personally involved with two current cases where the plaintiffs have threatened (legitimately) to sue their banks for theft after they won back their charges, costs, and interest and their banks closed their accounts.

Guess what? Once the banks realized that charging illegal penalty fees was now the least of their worries and that people were prepared to instigate criminal proceedings for theft they quickly backed down and offered (sorry, "begged") the plaintiffs to reopen their accounts and let bygones be bygones. Neither plaintiff has taken them up on their offer and are currently considering proceeding with the theft charges.

Generally speaking if you take action against your bank for illegal charges it is worth mentioning to them in your letter before action that any attempt to defame or disadvantage you as a result of you exercising your legal rights will result in further legal action.

I find this works a treat since once they receive their summons in respect of the illegal charges you can pretty much rest assured that they'll get the message that you're quite prepared to go to court in the event that they do defame or disadvantage you as a result of you deciding to do so.

Be advised though that 99% of banks do not "roll over" once you threaten action, 99% do not roll over once you issue proceedings, 99% will drag on until the day of the hearing trying to wear you down or brow beat you with legalese and fancy letterheaded missives from their elected counsel. There is an upside though - 99.9% of them, to date, have paid up. The one exception being Lloyds who in one case used a cunning (see: lowdown / sneaky) interprative distraction which, if they attempted to use it again, would be entirely ineffective

Inspiration for all

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/5043154.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian_j...524077,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...er/4810490.stm

http://www.lindum-marketing.com/pena...ess-120206.gif

[lemarsh]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

I deposited 2 payments into my bank on the 23rd may via online transaction from another bank.I have a standing order that goes out on the 2nd june.
.....
It is now 7th june and one of the deposits is in my account, the other one (larger) still nowhere to be seen, the other bank informed me it was marked as cleared their end on thursday 1st june.

The bank is Lloyds TSB and I have noticed recently they are incredibly slow, cheques usually take over a week to clear, my sister says in her bank they 1-3 days and for me its 5-7 working days.

If I use a cash machine or buy something on my debit card it doesnt show on my statement for 1-3 days instead of the expected instantly so their entire system seems lagged.

However I am concerned that after they pay out they turn around and say we no longer want to do business with you and closing your accounts, please pay of all outstanding debts (I have a loan and cancelled credit card balance) within X days to avoid debt collectors.

Is there any kind of protection to stop banks simply closing accounts for people claiming back their charges? since that customer will simply be not profitable for the bank anymore apart from interest on any debts so the bank will want to get rid.

OK - have worked for LTSB (many years in a branch, but not at present) - so would like to just add a few things into this.

I am not going to comment on the rights or wrongs of returning cheques etc - only that can be agreed between you and the bank, and the history of the account. As I do not know (or want to know) - I will leave that area.

Standing Orders from other Banks should be sent and receievd within 3 working days - and this has always been the case. In some cases it will be quicker (i.e. from same banks in some cases - but should never take longer). Only change to this is when the credit has incorrect information on it, and needs to be manually processed to the account.

The credits will (for all major banks) leave your account the day in is sent - not 4 days later, to time in when the account is due to get to the other end.Banks may pay interest during this period - but it will have left your bank. Therefore, you need to get them to explain how a payment is 'ceared' 7 days later. Doesn't make sense if you are using major bank - or at least one using APACS.

Cheques DO NOT TAKE 7 days to clear. Fact. They have always taken 4 days (and same day sometimes). Only exception if not drawn on UK bank sort-code. The computer systems automatically make cheques as cleared on the 4th (or earlier) day. No branch involement can change this.

The systems do not lag. They will debit your account the moment they get the 'electronic' payment through. If you withdraw through LTSB Cashpoint (and I believe Link) the payment will show immediately out of your account. However, if a retailer holds onto a transaction, then (although it may have been authorised), until the retailer and their processessing bank process the payment, no monies will come out of your account.

Loan accounts cannot (I believe) be closed early - they are dealt with under the Credit Act. You have agreed to pay then £x over £y months. Providing you make these payments, you are not in breach of the terms, and therefore OK. However, as Alliance & Leicester are doing, they are within their right to ask you to close your account, and give you 30 days notice.

The majority of customers pay (unlike most of Europe) no fees for running their accounts - and therefore people are receiving a free service (which costs a fortune to run - but everyone expects something for free). If people run their accounts badly, they should expect to pay for it. After all, if you go overdrawn without getting agreement, you are taking something that technically does not belong to you (i.e. the bank's money).

Ultimately, if everyone goes down the line of askiong for refunds over the last 6 years, I can see the banks starting to get very pciky, and only operating accounts that are for good customers, and do not run their accounts overdrawn and outside of limits. Therefore, getting accounts in the future would be more difficult, and if people stray from the right side of the limit - accounts closed quickly. Or running accounts for free will disapear. Not going to haooen over the next few years, but at some time in the future, who knows.

All the above are personal opinions, and in no way reflect in Chrysalis. Just setting a few facts right, and then a general opinion on the banking at present.

[danielf]

lemarsh: Out of interest: what is (roughly) the average cost of running a (private) current account

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

yes but for some of the people here transferring isn't possible because their credit rating isn't good.

I changed banks when my bank of 15 years or so pi**ed me off, they decided to bring forward the date they took a large DD from my account and charge me for going overdrawn. They did this for two months and after complaining 2 month I told them it would be the last, I took all my money out and placed it in an account with a new bank. Fortunately the old bank got in touch with me, apologised and sorted it out, the new bank was a pain in the backside. They offered me exactly the same service as my old bank, but then decided to only let me take out £50 a day from the cash machine and no overdraft facility. (I was happy with no overdraft)

My big argumment was approx £1000 a month going into the account in those days, and I was only allowed to take £50 a day out. My old bank allowed me to take a max of £200 a day back in the days when my wages were only £50 a week.

Changing banks can be very difficult.

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by Pia

I'm not sure i totally understand this...

So, charging is illegal, so why are they still doing it? How come one of them regulation companies haven't put a stop to it?
And how come they are allowed to close the bank accounts of people that claim?

I suspect that they are refunding the fees but at the same time do not agree that these fees were unlawful. it's easier just to refund it rather than the expense of fighting the customer. if you go through the complains process and the banking ombudsman because they fail to refund then the cost to the bank will be £100s at least. also once an issue like this goes to the ombudsman and it rules in a consumers favour the banks would then be force to scrap or reduce these fees for all customers and then there might be the issue re back dating. so the last thing they need is a test case.

---------- Post added at 00:07 ---------- Previous post was at 00:01 ----------

Originally Posted by lemarsh

Cheques DO NOT TAKE 7 days to clear. Fact. They have always taken 4 days (and same day sometimes). Only exception if not drawn on UK bank sort-code. The computer systems automatically make cheques as cleared on the 4th (or earlier) day. No branch involement can change this.

I'm not sure if you're referring to just lloydstsb or all banks but...I have it in writing from the nationwide that cheques into their current accounts take 5 working days to clear.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

I suspect that they are refunding the fees but at the same time do not agree that these fees were unlawful. it's easier just to refund it rather than the expense of fighting the customer. if you go through the complains process and the banking ombudsman because they fail to refund then the cost to the bank will be £100s at least. also once an issue like this goes to the ombudsman and it rules in a consumers favour the banks would then be force to scrap or reduce these fees for all customers and then there might be the issue re back dating. so the last thing they need is a test case.

Irrespective of the bank's opinion - penalty fees which are disproportionate and which do not represent the actual liquidated losses are illegal. This, enshrined in consumer contract law, has been proven in a court of law.

The banking ombudsman is, believe me, the last place a bank customer will get restitution. I am not aware of a single case where the ombudsman has ruled in the customers favour in respect of illegal charges.

The OFT, on the other hand.......

Have already told the banks what they need to do to comply with the law - and many of them are now shaking in their boots (as indeed are a lot of law firms and solicitors who have been party to hefty retainers to suppress the illegality / defend this practice by the banks for the past many years).

Thanks to "lemarsh" for your insight / input - you are absolutely correct about the early calling in of loans etc.