Proposal for a "Customer" Panel

Originally Posted by erol

Like making unsupported accusations about me? I am not surprised that you will neither support your accusations with evidence or appologise for making them.

You said you do not know what happened with Frank and ntl yet you seem absolutely sure, you know what happened with us, hmm - I am having a memory blackout here, I do not remember you being there in the background, so I would like to know how you possibly know everything about us when quite clearly you do not.

Originally Posted by erol

Well I am sorry that by pointing out that NTL are reluctant to work with indivduals that they have already tried working with in the past and found the relationship to be unworkable / unsatisfactory, you see that as a personal attack.

Get it right, it was the other way round, we found that it was not workable with them - when it came to the decision making we was kept right out of it.

Maybe this thread should be closed now as it seems to have deterioated into another mods/erolz argument.

Originally Posted by pem

Maybe this thread should be closed now as it seems to have deterioated into another mods/erolz argument.

I'm sorry that this has occurred I really am, but I find it really annoying when someone makes things out that quite clearly are untrue. I will refrain from any further exchanges between myself and erolz. Let the customer panel idea discussion continue.

[Sociable]

Originally Posted by pem

Maybe this thread should be closed now as it seems to have deterioated into another mods/erolz argument.

No way!!

That would be to allow Erol to be the cause of closing a positive thread in much the same way as his unfortunate style and combative attitude, just when things were getting far better at .com, was at least a part of the decision to close the whole forum.

I'm not saying Erol was completely to blame, but I for one always cringed when he joined any thread in "support" of a good idea as his style and attitude alwys tended to have this effect of making a discussion a personal one. The phrase "with friends like that who need enemies" always sprung to mind.

I therefore ask Erol to refrain from further enflaming the situation and that the mods assist in this by not responding further to his posts if he does post again as it is clear the history between them makes constructive debate impossible.

EDIT: I see Dr P has already responded positively so many thanks Dr P your post is very much appreciated. I just hope Erol will follow the example.

[Russ]

Erol may post comments which some people will feel strongly about (and I'm not sticking up for anyone here) but remember there won't be any personal attacks on this site....

[Russ]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

but when NTL were running .com, Peter also wanted to have nothing to do with that site as well. and also when .com was up and running, various ideas for a user forum were ignored. so who has failed to come up with the goods?

In my opinion it looked very unprofessional to have a company run web site and a product development manager who openly wanted nothing to do with it.

Perhaps it would be wise to hold back with comments about people who are not here to be able to speak up for themselves.....

[Florence]

I really think this thread needs to get back to customers ideas that could help solve todays problems.

I do know Peter will not be happy being dragged into this when he has no way to defend himself.

Lets just continue and plan to build a better future for NTL's customers.

[rodd]

From what I have seen, ntl have made no effort at all to try to work with the customers who gave feedback by way of the 'hell' sites. It's no good trying to blame those running the sites either. The complaints and feedback were there for all to see, clearly said and posted.

What chance had the efforts of those running such sites of being listened to, however hard they tried, when the previous owner and editor of the .com site, then working at ntl and privy to the meetings, could not even get through to ntl, quote Frank [ I told them till I was blue in the face ] end-quote.

There was never any effort made by ntl to correct the source of those last-resort complaints that came to the .com hell site, which had to fixed through the 'back-door' contacts. The same complaints just kept recurring again and again, nothing changed, and none of the feedback of those complaints was taken on-board by ntl.

The only use ntl seemed to see in having the .com site, was to con customers that they wanted to work with them, but it was rather, an attempt to quieten the criticism down. I suspect that is also ntl's ulterior motive in their latest moves towards other 'hell' sites.

NTL have no genuine interest in working with customers. They prefer to either quieten them down, or ignore them completely, to quote Ashley Grossman [-we could close the site down, ride out a few weeks bad press and quietly ignore the many protest sites and alternative sites that would undoubtedly spring up.] end-quote.

[Sociable]

I think we should at least give NTL a chance to respond to the general theme of this thread before we jump to any conclusions about what that reaction will be.

I will be putting together a mail to Peter in as positive a way as possible and remain hopefull that we can find a constructive way forward.

It will help that process if we all try to think and act more positively and put any past bad experiences behind us as that will be part of what I say to Peter in my message to him.

[rodd]

Originally Posted by icanadvise

I've seen announcements before Christmas on a couple of other forums from NTL product development staff that they are setting up trials and face to face user forums.

One site was ntlhell the other was a help site.

'Product development' could be started, by sorting out ntl's present services, before adding more product burden upon them.

It might also be an idea, to keep open any 'face to face user forum' that they may set up. Peter M could speak to Ashley G on advice of setting one up, if there is any communication there.

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Perhaps it would be wise to hold back with comments about people who are not here to be able to speak up for themselves.....

it wasnt aimed as a comment aimed at or about any paticular person just about how unprofessional it looked.

[carlingman]

Just to throw in my 2ps worth.

I am under the impression that NTL would be very reluctant to enter into any such negotiations with this site for a few of the reasons below.

It is highly unlikely that NTL will want to get their fingers burnt again as they did in the past by their so called Mods/Admins deceiving them and lying to the members while all along taking NTLs money by way of payment for moderating the site when all along they putting back ups in place to move here.

Now I am not flaming here as I have accepted the current teams reasons for doing this.

There were at the time of .com certain Mods/Admin who abused their powers by putting their jack boots on jumping down on anyone who was remotely critical of the site which then fast tracked the idea of closure to NTL as the constant closing of threads was becoming a joke as far as NTL were concerned and the site was no longer being taken serious.

Ironically at this time NTL were pulling out all the stops to snoop and try and find out if the current team at the time were trying to assist the sites closure while they were setting up this one but it was all to no avail and was a pretty well kept secret.

I thought and still do think it was wrong of the team there at the time to single out individuals and blame them for the closure, they have contributed in a certain way but to single out certain individuals and even name them at one point was bang out of order when they themselves were happily contributing to the demise of a site they were being paid to moderate etc.

Smacks a bit of double standards, but life moves on and it happened.

I really donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t envy the person who is given the task of trying to convince NTL to enter into any form of negotiations with a Customer Based Panel in anyway connected with this site when they will know full well that some of the current team here were the same team that schemed and lied to them while on their payroll setting this place up as back up contingency for when their bubble finally burst.

The chance to negotiate with NTL was squandered the day the team over there decided to shaft them and set this site up as a back up, and no doubt they will be very unwilling to give you or anyone connected here with a second chance.

Without naming any names I agree in part with Erol posted some time ago and share the view that to get NTL to listen to the its users is not going to be done with certain members of the team here as they are not the most appropriate people to get the job done.

As I have said above and I will say again this is my personal opinion and I am not flaming anyone here as I have accepted the current teamâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s reasons for setting this site up and think up to now the site has become fair more successful than .com ever was in certain aspects.

Anyhow enough from me, I admire the sentiments and the idea of trying to set up the Customer Panel but whoever his labelled and given this task personally I really think you are fighting a losing battle here although I would love to be proved wrong.

[Russ]

.....so instead they go to another NTL forum where they don't need to spend much/anything to get customers on their side

[Florence]

We are now discussing this here what NTL was offering to replace .com wouldn't have allowed what is happening here now.

There was a problem on both sides the Admin team was getting help for customers that part worked extremely well. The problem was the management who was only looking for ways or excuses to close .com down.

Participation from management on .com was extremely poor this created the problems. The Admin team could see they were being ignored and this is never good. This showed a complete lack of communication. Now they have seen this they decide to try the panel. It was only posted on two forums when it should have gone out as general realise. It was unfortunate that one of the forums was one that had to clear a lot out to make them look more NTL friendly.

I know this is the same admin team as .com but Ashley G has to look to himself for what has happened. Had he been more a true manager accepted the forums for the information and feedback it could give instead of the customers are enemyââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s forum things would have been different. This team perhaps became frustrated with Ashley as he had a one track mind when it came to the forums that was it was closing he just hadn't completely decided when.

Lets not pass the blame onto this team they have worked hard for the customers under bad conditions and got the best they could for the customers.. Ashley G had only one agenda close the forums so customers couldn't complain.

Now we have more than one way to get things sorted if NTL are slow to respond. We have this forum, ISPreview complaints, and http://www.arbitrators.org/cisas/ if NTL are in the cisas. A lot have been using them to work between the customer and the ISP to create communication and resolve the problem.

A long post yes but it had to be to show that communication between manager and Admins had died and the Admins was only thinking of their members/NTL customers at the time.

I sent Ashley emails which he decided to ignore just after the plug was pulled like the ones sent to all managers. Again NTL had shown a bad case of companyââ‚à ‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s lack of communication.

Peter M is offering a way to communicate and it has to be accepted. I have been in communication with Peter and he does reply which is a positive step forward maybe other managers will see that this is a way to improve the company.

It is a new year and these Admins shouldnââ‚à ‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t be blamed for NTLs uncooperative attitude. Itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s in NTLs court to build bridges and bring all the customers into any decision on the panel.

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by Kitty

I have been in communication with Peter and he does reply which is a positive step forward maybe other managers will see that this is a way to improve the company.

It's still a shame though that Peter is inviting people to join 'trials' but ignoring this forum - at the end of the day, it's the members of this forum who miss out - NTL staff should remember that the members of this forum are no different to members on the other forums - ie they all have something in common - they are customers.