Guns For Self-Defence - Page 6

me283 · 20-10-2005, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlackDad

I know there are countries where this is the case, but show me nonetheless. As I have said in an earlier post in this thread, much boils down to the culture of fear that we live in. Putting guns in the hands of people already frightened by terrorist attacks, fear of crime etc. and how the media portray these issues, can only lead to more bloodshed and violence.

But even if we didn't live in such 'anxious' times my answer would still be no.

So, I fail to see why you are using the opposite statistics to support your own argument? If you are going to use stats, then you are saying you believe in what they say; but what you are saying is that you will only agree to the use of stats if they support your own view.

Also, you say "much boils down to the culture of fear that we live in"; I would suggest that your own words make a mockery of comparing the UK to the USA, Brazil etc

SlackDad · 20-10-2005, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by me283

So, I fail to see why you are using the opposite statistics to support your own argument? If you are going to use stats, then you are saying you believe in what they say; but what you are saying is that you will only agree to the use of stats if they support your own view.

What opposite statistics am I using? I am saying that putting guns in the hands of individuals who are already frightened of crime etc. can not be a good thing. How is this in anyway a conflict from what I've been saying or contradicted by statistics I have presented.

Quote:

Also, you say "much boils down to the culture of fear that we live in"; I would suggest that your own words make a mockery of comparing the UK to the USA, Brazil etc

me283 · 20-10-2005, 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlackDad

What opposite statistics am I using? I am saying that putting guns in the hands of individuals who are already frightened of crime etc. can not be a good thing. How is this in anyway a conflict from what I've been saying or contradicted by statistics I have presented.

Putting it simply, you quote stats, whilst admitting that there are other stats that will contradict them; so why quote them in the first place?

And my suggestion is that there is a far greater culture of fear in Brazil than in the UK.

SlackDad · 20-10-2005, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by me283

Putting it simply, you quote stats, whilst admitting that there are other stats that will contradict them; so why quote them in the first place?.

Simply inaccurate. I give up.

Quote:

And my suggestion is that there is a far greater culture of fear in Brazil than in the UK.

If true, then provides evidence for my argument. But again I give up.

Hom3r · 20-10-2005, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDave1

Should UK citizens be allowed a gun for self defence?

After all guns don't fire themselves. If someone is stabbed there isn't public outcry for knives to be banned.

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, the people that should be allow arms in the UK are those out to protect it from those out to destory it.

Graham · 20-10-2005, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by me283

On a final note, there is a joke in the States about our police. In the States the police say "Stop, or I'll shoot!" In the UK the police say "Stop, or I'll shout "Stop" again".

Except now it's:

"Someone said you were Irish and carrying a shot gun <BANG> "

Or:

"You're a naked guy, in bed <BANG>"

Or:

You're a Brazilian guy who walks onto an underground train <BANG> <BANG> <BANG> <BANG> <BANG> <BANG> <BANG> <BANG>"

Hilarious...

makikomi · 20-10-2005, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielf

In your case, a floor board (laminate) would be more likely to be lying around?

Ha ha ha.

No, the spare laminate flooring is in the box room now. The rolling pin is four steps away in the kitchen.

makikomi · 20-10-2005, 21:46

Ben Elton once said that the gun licence application process should be made very simple.

Ask the person "Do you want a gun?"

If they say "Yes", DON'T GIVE THEM ONE!

20-10-2005, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

I think people should be able to carry, and use guns. Criminals do, and honest, law abiding citizens have a right, a human right, to defend themselves. Guns level the playing field quite considerably.

This old debate has been done before, many times, and its never been particularly pleasant, except for the last time it happened, it remained fairly civil. I've justfied myself before so I don't really want to go all through it again.

There are two quotes that I think are important:

1. "God made all men. Samuel Colt made all men equal"

2. "Gun control - the theory that a 100lb woman should have to fist fight with a 300lb rapist."

Also, I do think, although its not really a right, but I think the government should allow responsible, law abiding people to use guns for recreation.

Punky..........This has to be the most irresponsible post I have ever seen you make, You are so Americanised, it is frightening.

Arming people in this country does not deal with the problems in society, it just "ups" the stakes considerably.

Quote:

I do spend a lot of time in Florida. and I shoot there at a local range. I am staggered how many tourists shoot there. The owner says its not unheard of to to have more Brits than locals some days

Maybe the Brits are worried by the "drive by" shootings, so they get in some target practice.
__________________________________________________

The day the public is allowed to carry guns to defend itself, will be the saddest day in this country's history.

And as for putting God in the same sentence as Samuel Colt is laughable, another Americanism no doubt

I don't mind the yanks, it is just that I don't agree with their gun culture.

me283 · 20-10-2005, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by makikomi

Ben Elton once said that the gun licence application process should be made very simple.

Ask the person "Do you want a gun?"

If they say "Yes", DON'T GIVE THEM ONE!

Ah yes, Ben Elton, a real man of principles. Hilarious, wasn't he? Or rather, hilarious, he wasn't.
__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman

Maybe the Brits are worried by the "drive by" shootings, so they get in some target practice.

Would that be the drive by shootings in Nottingham, or in Brixton?

**Damien** · 20-10-2005, 23:11

There are no actual benefits to this as i can see, if someone breaks into your house they would have the jump on you anyway :S

greencreeper · 20-10-2005, 23:11

We all kill and harm. We're humans. We're good at it. Sure, yeah, we bang on about war and learning the lessons of history but it's all ******** - we're still killing and allowing to be killed. Given a choice between a bullet in the back of the head and a life half-lived because Daz in high school broke my heart and I'll never love again, well, I'd pick the bullet. Look at it large - death isn't about the body; about flesh. It's about life - how you live it, or don't. Lot of walking dead out there. Guns don't kill - people do. It's the power that the weapon gives you - just like a drug in that the same dosage in different people has different effects. Some can handle it, some can't. The people don't change because you take their toys away - just find other ways to get that power and rush. The anti-gun lot are homing in on something that can be labelled that won't talk back at them. Saves having to ask all those nasty questions of themselves.

Wake up - your human, you're naturally not nice, live with it. Blame Darwin if you want. Blame God. Could have been chewing on leaves and scratching my nuts right now, halfway up a tree, contemplating sex with that big hairy stud in the next tree. Safe sex - hanging onto the branch with both feet.

SlackDad · 20-10-2005, 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by greencreeper

We all kill and harm. We're humans. We're good at it. Sure, yeah, we bang on about war and learning the lessons of history but it's all ******** - we're still killing and allowing to be killed. Given a choice between a bullet in the back of the head and a life half-lived because Daz in high school broke my heart and I'll never love again, well, I'd pick the bullet. Look at it large - death isn't about the body; about flesh. It's about life - how you live it, or don't. Lot of walking dead out there. Guns don't kill - people do. It's the power that the weapon gives you - just like a drug in that the same dosage in different people has different effects. Some can handle it, some can't. The people don't change because you take their toys away - just find other ways to get that power and rush. The anti-gun lot are homing in on something that can be labelled that won't talk back at them. Saves having to ask all those nasty questions of themselves.

Wake up - your human, you're naturally not nice, live with it. Blame Darwin if you want. Blame God. Could have been chewing on leaves and scratching my nuts right now, halfway up a tree, contemplating sex with that big hairy stud in the next tree. Safe sex - hanging onto the branch with both feet.

A rather deterministic view. I believe that part of being human is the ability to rationalise rather than being a slave to genes, as your post appears to suggest.

greencreeper · 20-10-2005, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlackDad

A rather deterministic view. I believe that part of being human is the ability to rationalise rather than being a slave to genes, as your post appears to suggest.

Just painting over the rot. But if people want to pretend to be nice and fluffy, then so be it. Won't take much to revert them.

As cavemen, when food was short, we'd bash grandma and grandad over the head and eat them. Little has changed in the few thousand years since, so yeah - can keep trying to be nice in the hope that evolution takes the hint, but I don't hold out much hope.

me283 · 20-10-2005, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by greencreeper

Just painting over the rot. But if people want to pretend to be nice and fluffy, then so be it. Won't take much to revert them.

As cavemen, when food was short, we'd bash grandma and grandad over the head and eat them. Little has changed in the few thousand years since, so yeah - can keep trying to be nice in the hope that evolution takes the hint, but I don't hold out much hope.

You are right. At the end of the day we are animals. Sure, we like to think we are more evolved and civilised than the rest of the animal kingdom, but are we really? Those who say "guns are terrible, we shouldn't want to kill another human being" may be right - when dealing with their own kind; but when dealing with a knife-wielding maniac who's high on drugs, are they still right? Or are they just stupid?

To put it simply, if I were put in a situation of "kill or be killed", I would have no hesitation in taking a life. Give me a gun and I would do it even quicker. Now, as violent crime is on the increase, the chances of my being in that situation might seem to be ever so slightly increasing...