Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Is it morally wrong to avoid tax i personally don't know having never been in ther position to consider it i am not going to pass judgement to be honest because if i were to find myself in that position i am not sure i wouldn't do the same and neither can any of us till we are in that situation.

Story told to me today. imo, a good illustration:
Let me give you a hypothetical (but probably typical) situation and see if you think if the tax 'management' is excessive......

Business takes about £260k, after expenses and wages for the jobs he creates (which put money back into the economy) the business owner makes about £160k.
Of that, he should pay about £50k tax according to HMRC.
So he has worked his little butt off to generate £260k of which he sees £110k!

On top of that he sees his tax money misspent by lying, cheating politicians and funnelled into the pockets of (some/many/take your pick) people who are out to defraud the DSS because they can work but choose not to or are health tourists or are claiming this/that/the other even though they haven't paid a bean into the pot 'cos they have been welcomed into the country by politicians who thought the well was bottomless.
He looks at the shambles of the NHS with it's terrible waiting times, awful service and overpaid GP's & consultants.......the way he can't rely on the police for much other than fining him if he strays 6mph over the limit & the way the council taxes him not once (domestic rates) but twice (business rates)

This guys accountant comes along as offers to legally reduce the tax bill from £50k to £10k.........no brainer.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Story told to me today. imo, a good illustration:
Let me give you a hypothetical (but probably typical) situation and see if you think if the tax 'management' is excessive......

Business takes about £260k, after expenses and wages for the jobs he creates (which put money back into the economy) the business owner makes about £160k.
Of that, he should pay about £50k tax according to HMRC.
So he has worked his little butt off to generate £260k of which he sees £110k!

<load of self-serving rubbish snipped>

This guys accountant comes along as offers to legally reduce the tax bill from £50k to £10k.........no brainer.

He's not much of a business man if he can't see the difference between turnover and profit. Or are you just massaging the figures to make the poor old business man look unfairly treated. He's actually worked to generate £160k of which he sees £110k, but somehow he thinks he should pay less than 10% tax rather than the 25 to 30% most of us pay.

[Gary L]

I think each and everyone of us would not pay (as an example) £80,000 in 'tax' if there was a completely legal way of doing it.

some people I have spoken to think that in the case of Jimmy Carr. that he doesn't pay any tax at all. that's how stupid people are when they listen to the news.
that's how stupid they are with everything that involves using their brain.

ignore Dave. he'll go away soon.

I think this all highlights the need for a universal 30% tax rate for everyone as per this thread


---------- Post added at 01:41 ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 ----------

Originally Posted by cookie_365

It's the government that sets the tax laws.

They decide 'this stuff is legal, that stuff is illegal. This stuff you pay x tax on, that stuff you pay y tax on'.

I don't see what there is to complain about if someone works within the legal boundaries that the government sets in order to pay the least tax.

If it's 'morally wrong' then make it illegal, or shut up about it.

I couldn't agree more

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Then vote for the government that will follow the economic policies you want..

Is there a party that'll tackle this issue? Seems to me that this island is a tax haven for the obscenely rich and the rest of us pick up the bill, it's no wonder our best and brightest think their futures lie abroad when there is so little incentive in terms of cash and standard of living to stay here.

---------- Post added at 03:12 ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 ----------

Originally Posted by dave6x

Because Gary Barlow is a Tory supporter with whom he campaigned at the last election!!!!

And Jimmy Carr not only isn't he has also made it known how much of a liberal socialist type he is, he might not be a crook but he sure is a hypocrite.

I just think rather then highlight one individual no matter how much he deserved it given one of his past routines this government would be better off closing as many loopholes as they can. No system will ever be 100% secure but ours seems ridiculously easy to work around if you have the money.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

I just think rather then highlight one individual no matter how much he deserved it given one of his past routines this government would be better off closing as many loopholes as they can. No system will ever be 100% secure but ours seems ridiculously easy to work around if you have the money.

Which is why I reckon specifying the acceptable avoidance schemes and making the rest illegal by definition is the way forward. No need to keep tackling new loopholes as they appear.


I'd really love to kmnow homw many of the 'great and the good' have preached to the rest of us yet avoided large amounts of tax by measures such as Carr used.

Ken Clarke outlined a general anti-avoidance law they are preparing to put to the Commons on QT last night, which would go some way to redressing the balance here.

In answer to the question "Why Jimmy Carr?" specifically, it was because of a routine he performed on Friday Night Live in which he pilloried Barclays for tax avoidance. Utter, utter hypocrisy.

Personally I am quite uncomfortable with politicians making pronouncements about what's "moral" in any sphere, tax or otherwise. Such things are for theologians and philosophers to argue over I think.

[Osem]

I too feel a tad uncomfortable being lectured on morals by politicians.

[Russ]

Just watched 8 out of 10 Cats. Now I'm under no illusions whatsoever that he only apologised for getting caught, not for what he did.

Usually I can't stand the smarmy arrogant *insert 4 letter word of choice* but kudos to him for taking all the flack on the chin. He made no effort whatsoever to defend his actions. None of the "I took bad advice from my accountant" rubbish you'd expect from a politician, he acknowledged one of the reasons the economy is in a bad way is because people like him avoid paying tax.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Russ

he acknowledged one of the reasons the economy is in a bad way is because people like him avoid paying tax.

But is it though?
does the economy know that there's a few million missing out of the petty cash tin. or is it the case that it's surprised to know that it could have a few million more?

I mean I give you £5 every week for the past 10 months. I say I should have been giving you £8 a week if I did it properly, and you say wow I didn't know that. so all this time I could have been having £8 instead of £5?

[Russ]

Yes. One of the ways this country raises money is through people paying tax.

Actually Gary's right .HMRC have absolutely no idea how much tax revenue should be raised from self employed people .Self assessment sees to that ,you basically tell the HMRC how much tax you should pay and is very rarely questioned

[Russ]

The government gets money from people paying tax. That is an unquestionable fact.

If you doubt it then ask yourself what the purpose of tax is.

Originally Posted by Russ

The government gets money from people paying tax. That is an unquestionable fact.

If you doubt it then ask yourself what the purpose of tax is.

nobodies denying that Russ .I'm just saying that under the current system of self assessment HMRC are at the mercy of all self employed people as regards raising taxes ,what they should raise and what they do raise are two entirely different things .