Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

CAn someone clarify one think for me please. How is it that the constructers lose points for using illegally obtained information (which alledgedly have given them an advantage gained in dubious manners) but the drivers still keep the points. Aren't they racing in the same cars and got those points which Maclaren can no longer use? Im a bit confused.

Yes but tv would be very unhappy if they wrecked the drivers championship, it's been the most interesting for years

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Yes but tv and media would be very unhappy if they wrecked the drivers championship, lets be honest it's been the most interesting for years

Definately, I want the points to stay, but I just dont understand the 'common sense' of it all. Did it not happen a while back with Schuey too, they lost constructor points but not his own?

[sherer]

the FIA should be making some more statements later today to clear up and clarify all of this.

I think the fine is £50 minus any money McLaren have already earned this year.

We still need to know if any Ferrari info made it into a McLaren design

or

Whether McLaren used any Ferrari operational data like fuel strategy, weight of car etc etc to their advantage.

Apparently a McLaren employee left the team for Renault and took some McLaren docs with him and designed the same cooling system on the Renault as McLaren use this year. This was going to be part of their defence.

It seems the sport has now got so complex that these design things help the team more than having a quick driver these days and maybe they need to look into the very heart of the sport.

The other year Toyota were found guilty in a German Court of Law of stealing Ferrari data and the FIA did nothing at all

[iadom]

I heard that some of the info may relate to braking & tyres, Ferrari used Bridgestone the season before but McClaren were still on Michelin.

Jim.

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

CAn someone clarify one think for me please. How is it that the constructers lose points for using illegally obtained information (which alledgedly have given them an advantage gained in dubious manners) but the drivers still keep the points. Aren't they racing in the same cars and got those points which Maclaren can no longer use? Im a bit confused.

The FIA did a deal with the drivers, by offering them immunity from losing their standings in return for providing them with evidence such as emails rumoured to exist between Alonso and stand-by and test driver Pedro De La Rosa.

Bu I wouldn't spend too much time trying to apply logic to this situation. There is too much secrecy in the whole 'court' process, which does fuel certain theories, but it's pretty clear that this document was not passed to McLaren until April of this year, well after the design for the 07 car was finished. Whilst there may be a few tweaks that they could have borrowed, the main question you have to ask is why? The Ferraris are not the best ones they've ever created this season, so why would you copy them?

And it would be simple for McLaren to show any changes that they made to the designs of this season's car since April, therefore proving or disproving the case against them.

The only issue of doubt of course would be next year's car, which is not built yet...so as far as I can make out this is a pre-emptive strike by the FIA, penalising a team on the possibility that they might use someone elses designs for next year. Mad.

[Scarlett]

Well the news is out now...

Certainly two of the drivers ( De la rosa and Alonso) were not only aware of the information but also of the exact source. And it had been going on for some time.

I'm still not convincened that the team should have been punished in the way it was. The drivers in question were at fault for not flagging it up and its stinky the way that having caused the whole mess, they have got off more or less scot free because they were given immunity.

I'll be interested to see if they were the only ones who used the infor or if it went higher.

[sherer]

Originally Posted by Scarlett

Well the news is out now...

Certainly two of the drivers ( De la rosa and Alonso) were not only aware of the information but also of the exact source. And it had been going on for some time.

I'm still not convincened that the team should have been punished in the way it was. The drivers in question were at fault for not flagging it up and its stinky the way that having caused the whole mess, they have got off more or less scot free because they were given immunity.

I'll be interested to see if they were the only ones who used the infor or if it went higher.

the full report is on the FIA web site if you want to read it

http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...ion_130907.pdf

The FIA only found out what was going on by getting the e-mails from the drivers which they gave up as they offered them immunity

[Hom3r]

It sound like that Alonso has "blood" on his hands.

Any bets that he won't be racing with Mclaren next year, if he ever races in F1 again.

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

It sound like that Alonso has "blood" on his hands.

Any bets that he won't be racing with Mclaren next year, if he ever races in F1 again.

The conspiracy theorist in might might want to suggest that he moves to a red car next year!

Someone knew about these emails, which is why the drivers were offered a deal to hand them over. I can't say it hasn't crossed my mind that this might be a stitch-up of McLaren.

[Cobbydaler]

Originally Posted by andygrif

The conspiracy theorist in might might want to suggest that he moves to a red car next year!

Someone knew about these emails, which is why the drivers were offered a deal to hand them over. I can't say it hasn't crossed my mind that this might be a stitch-up of McLaren.

According to the BBC, Alonso threatened to hand them over...

Reports have suggested Alonso told Dennis he would show the e-mails to Max Mosley, president of the sport's governing body the FIA, if he did not give Alonso number one status at McLaren over Lewis Hamilton.
Dennis is said to have called his bluff, telling Alonso to go ahead. At which point, it is claimed, Dennis then phoned Mosley himself, effectively handing his team in to the FIA.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

What could Ferrari be punished for?

If Mclaren didn't knowingly benefit or make any brown envelope payments then why were the punished at all?

Exactly.

My opinion is that either both teams should have been punished, or neither of them. To only single out Mclaren is what seems unfair, to me - although that opinion is based on the 'evidence' available up to now.

It was interesting that Max Mosley seemed to be effectively accusing Ron Dennis of lying to him - something Ron vehemently denied when interviewed during the earlier qualifying session

[xpod]

Someone knew about these emails, which is why the drivers were offered a deal to hand them over. I can't say it hasn't crossed my mind that this might be a stitch-up of McLaren.

Martin Brundle alluded to as much in an interview i watched yesterday.
People are constantly moving positions between the teams and have always taken team secrets with them.That in itself is nothing new.

Has`nt F1 been so much better over the last couple of years though,this will just make things all the more interesting afaic

[Hom3r]

Well another fine win by a world champion hopeful

And it means he will win the championship in China next weekend if he beats Alonso, or loses no more than a point to him. (History will be made if he does as no rookie has ever one in his first season)

Alonso binned the car

Hamilton will be the Sports Personality of the year me thinks

Fascinating race, mostly for the 'wrong' reasons.

I didn't get what Ferrari were doing, going out with intermediate tyres - whether they knew about the instruction to go with full wets, or not, they were gambling on the weather clearing up for them to be any use. As it turned out even the full wets were aquaplaning, so it was a bizarre decision. Have to say a superb drive by Kimi to get on the podium.

I'm glad there were no injuries from the various shunts, it wasn't exactly 'safety first' & while I appreciate the commercial pressure to put on a show, I have to question whether it should have been run, at all?

But Hamilton was very impressive & despite the dodgy nature of some of his comments
in interviews, showed he could get the job done on the track, once he had survived being spun off by Kubica....

[Jon T]

It's at the back of my mind that even if Lewis wins the word championship that Ferarri may have other ideas. I hope i'm wrong, but I can see Lewis winning next weekend, only to find out that a complaint to the FIA has been made about him or the car.

Let's be honest, we know what Ferarri were doing with intermediates on, they were hoping the conditions changed, and that nobody would notice their mistake(deliberate in my mind).

Bet you the FIA wouldn't have been interested if McLaren(or any other team) had filed a complaint against Ferrari for using tyres they were not supposed to have on the car.

FIA=Ferrari International Assistance