NTL Broadband Terms & Conditions Moving House? - Page 6

scrotnig · 25-02-2005, 18:53

This thread and that other one about unbundling have made me rather cross and I've possibly been a bit abrasive with some people, which I regret. So I am going to retire from both for a while, or at least try to be nicer in them.

All I ask in return is that people please don't flame around the place if told something that isn't what they want to hear. I might even agree with your view, but what I deal in is fact, and sometimes in life the facts ain't nice. I prefer not to deal in bull and just tell it like it is.

Derek · 25-02-2005, 18:54

Rent a satellite phone.

cr80123 · 25-02-2005, 19:05

Yes I could rent a satellite phone, the point is I could aslo cancel my contract with Orange.

scrotnig I think the problem is you're not dealing in facts but assumptions, you're assuming ntl can do what they're trying to do because they've told you they can. It's not uncommon amongst large companies to do this, after all who would fancy going to court with ntl over such a petty issue? Much easier just to pay the bill and have done with it. You cannot enforce a contract if you can't keep your side of it. As I've said before,the only way they could do this is if the contract was to supply services specifically at that address. (Or of course had a clause about moving into non-ntl areas).

Derek · 25-02-2005, 19:09

I don't think Scrotnig is the one dealing with assumptions.

He works for Ntl. I used to work for Ntl. I know work for a mobile phone company.

We KNOW that they will not allow cancellations using moving as an excuse.

cr80123 · 25-02-2005, 19:19

Well I don't really know what to do against such pig-headed stubborness, who you work for is irrelevant. Read clause 4.4 again, it makes no mention of the reason for not being able to provide network coverage, it's legally binding, both parties are subject to its content.

obvious · 25-02-2005, 19:27

Last time I looked, the ntl contract/T&Cs had more holes than a sieve. There are any number of ways to get out of this situation :-

1. They are required to inform you in writing in advance of any material changes in service - Find a change in the service and argue that it was material. I'm damn sure they never sent you a letter about it.

2.

Quote:

ii. if we significantly reduce the content of the Services or make any significant change to the terms and conditions of this Agreement under Condition 26, you may terminate this Agreement by giving us one month's notice in writing within 30 days of such change irrespective of whether the minimum period in respect of such Services has expired.

Surely you can come up with one area where the content of the services was significantly reduced? Here's a hint - email, newsgroups, availabilty of support etc etc.

In any case, good luck.

Derek · 25-02-2005, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by cr80123

Well I don't really know what to do against such pig-headed stubborness, who you work for is irrelevant. Read clause 4.4 again, it makes no mention of the reason for not being able to provide network coverage, it's legally binding, both parties are subject to its content.

Hmm we are talking about Ntl's terms and conditions and now a mobile phone companies T&C's. So taking the advice of someone who has worked for both isn't relevant is it?

If you have to leave a mobile phone contract early for whatever reason (except death and thats about it) you will have to pay the remaining monthly costs. Thats it. No ifs, buts or "I'll go to watchdog" will work.

Moving to another area won't work

Now if the Orange network had a catastrophic failure and it could no longer cater for the number of users and you were not getting an acceptable service then they could kick some users off with no comeback.

Of course I'm fighting against people who would argue white is black just to get a response so this is my final word on the matter. I'm bailing out with Scrotnig as I'm getting more and more p'd off and will end up posting something I regret shortly.

PS. The email and newsgroups aren't a guaranteed service so that won't work.

cr80123 · 25-02-2005, 19:54

I hope you're not taking anything I say personally, I don't mean to offend either of you.

Again you're reading stuff into the clause which isn't there, talking about catastrophic newtork failure, all it says is reasons beyond our control.

Let me put one more point to you before going out. Say I did what I said before, take out a years contract with Orange, but have to move to the North Pole after 1 month. i try to cancel under clause 4.4, they refuse, it goes to court. I say I'm cancellin under clause 4.4 which states I can cancel if Orange are unable to provide network coverage for reasons beyond their control. They say, ah we didn't mean if you moved we meant if there was a catastrophic network failure. I say you should have said that then. Who do you think will win?

Have a good evening.

Derek · 25-02-2005, 19:58

I'd say Orange

scrotnig · 25-02-2005, 20:00

To return to the original poster's issue:

He has no legal right to cancel, *however* he has clearly been told at point of sale that he could indeed do so should he find himself in the circumstances he now does find himself in.

Therefore, I believe that ntl as a company should honour this without question. It will probably take a manager to do it but it should be honoured.

I am confident that someone senior in his region would be able to resolve this. Perhaps instead of all this fighting someone could find out what region the poster is from and try and find a useful contact for that region.

cr80123 · 25-02-2005, 20:04

So in a situation in court where Orange admit to not stating in the contract what they meant, you think they wouldn't have to stick to the legally-binding agreement between us but could amend the contract on the fly as it were?And you accuse me of arguing that white is black!

intalex · 25-02-2005, 20:16

Can't believe I am on this forum at this time on a friday nite...

I wasn't the original poster. I'm in a similar boat to the original poster, but what I also have is a verbal promise from my original salesman that NTL would cancel my contract without penalty if I moved to a non-cabled area. It's a case of whether or not NTL would take this verbal promise into account. If they do honour it, what's stopping other people in this forum from claiming that they also checked with their original salesperson that they could do this? I guess, do it if you can be convincing enough!

scrotnig · 25-02-2005, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by intalex

Can't believe I am on this forum at this time on a friday nite...

I wasn't the original poster. I'm in a similar boat to the original poster, but what I also have is a verbal promise from my original salesman that NTL would cancel my contract without penalty if I moved to a non-cabled area. It's a case of whether or not NTL would take this verbal promise into account. If they do honour it, what's stopping other people in this forum from claiming that they also checked with their original salesperson that they could do this? I guess, do it if you can be convincing enough!

In some cases, I've known salespeople actually put it in the notes, though not very often.

I think you should definitely try it and not just accept what you've been told. I think it's very peculiar that this rule has been changed, although I wasn't a salesman in my last role I told quite a few people they'd be ok in this regard and am more than a little peeved to discover the rules have changed while I wasn't looking and I will now look like a liar!

I actually haven't seen any official notification that this rule HAS changed, I have just 'heard' that it has. My current role means that I wouldn't get any such notification anyway, but that's beside the point. I might investigate next week to see if this rule really HAS changed or whether it's just certain people trying it on.

Derek · 25-02-2005, 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by cr80123

So in a situation in court where Orange admit to not stating in the contract what they meant, you think they wouldn't have to stick to the legally-binding agreement between us but could amend the contract on the fly as it were?And you accuse me of arguing that white is black!

But they wouldn't have broken their contract. They can still provide services to you in the UK. If you choose to move then Orange wouldn't be breaking the contract.
Getting back on topic the person at the start of this thread is moving. Not his choice but Ntl can still supply services at the address. They are not removing the services or forcing him to move. If someone else is then that is unfortunate but sadly not Ntl's problem.

ian@huth · 25-02-2005, 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by cr80123

I think the problem is you don't understand the nature of contracts. They're very explicit legally-binding documents. Both sides have to do exactly what they state or they are in breach of it.

Yes if I was to go and live the north pole for a year (where I assume they have no coverage) and had a year left on my Orange contract, I could definitely terminate it under clause 4.4 (unless they managed to provide me with an alternative at no additional cost). That's what it says, surely there's no possibilty of an arguement here?

I think that you have hit the nail right on the head with your first paragraph. A contract is a very explicit legally binding document. Interpretation of such a document though can be quite complex and many people think they have found a loophole but rarely does that loophole exist.

If you were to rely on moving to the north pole as a get out with orange then you would sadly be mistaken. You would be relying on clause 4.7 of Oranges terms and conditions as set out at http://www.orange.co.uk/talkplans/tplan_tc.html which is that Orange is no longer able to provide access to their Network. Moving to the north pole means that you are moving out of their network area but you would still have access to the network if you moved back to its coverage area. Any court would laugh at you if you tried to use that as a get out.