UK teen celibacy

[Xaccers]

Unfortunately, studies on these abstainence schemes have proven that the majority of kids on it are shagging within 2 years and are much MORE likely to not use condoms

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Unfortunately, studies on these abstainence schemes have proven that the majority of kids on it are shagging within 2 years and are much MORE likely to not use condoms

I'm not surprised at all, but a link would be nice?

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by danielf

I'm not surprised at all, but a link would be nice?

On ipaq so can't find you one, was also mentioned on the Today program this morning.
The guy promoting this latest scheme said they failed because didn't use "rings".
Obviously he's got his finger on the pulse of today's youth

[Tezcatlipoca]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Unfortunately, studies on these abstainence schemes have proven that the majority of kids on it are shagging within 2 years and are much MORE likely to not use condoms

I can understand that. Rather than being taught about safe sex (as teaching the use of condoms would "encourage sexual activity" ), they're taught not to have sex full stop.....so when they do eventually "give in" & have sex, they know less about it than kids who have not been on these programmes.

Doesn't help that a lot of these abstinence programmes actually slam condom use, & spread propaganda that they are useless against protecting against STDs & pregnancy.

Originally Posted by danielf

I'm not surprised at all, but a link would be nice?

Graham posted a link to a story about a US study, on the previous page of this thread.

Here's the story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/...166168,00.html

EDIT:

The whole thing is definitely worth reading, but here's a snippet:

US study of teenage sexual disease destroys basis of virginity crusade

Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington
Wednesday March 10, 2004
The Guardian

American teenagers who take the pledge to remain virgins until they marry have almost the same rate of sexually transmitted disease as other young people, a new study of adolescent behaviour says.
The finding destroys a key rationale for the abstinence crusade - that it prevents disease - and poses a strong challenge to a social engineering project that has been embraced by the White House.

The eight-year study of 12,000 young people by two American sociologists found that the graduates of abstinence programmes were nearly as likely as other young people to catch sexually transmitted infections such as gonorrhoea or chlamydia.

Other findings, yet to be published, also suggest that abstinence programmes do not prevent early pregnancy, Hannah Bruckner, a sociologist at Yale University and co-author of the study, said.

(big snip)

Church-based abstinence programmes are openly hostile to condoms and preach that they do not guard against disease.

(snip)

EDIT: Same study, BBC News story - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3546007.stm

[Xaccers]

Hasn't the Catholic church in Africa been found telling people condoms actually help spread AIDS?

[kronas]

i think a small minority who are easily brainwashed do stick to the pledge, i call it brainwashing because it essentially is due to the fact showing a completely one sided story and people being sucked in to the stigma of the topic some people do tend to focus on the positive aspects..............

but for the majorty its 'business as usual' it wont do a damn thing

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Hasn't the Catholic church in Africa been found telling people condoms actually help spread AIDS?

i know certain church leaders are advocating against the use of condoms

[Tezcatlipoca]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Hasn't the Catholic church in Africa been found telling people condoms actually help spread AIDS?

Yeah, I'm sure I've read about that somewhere...


EDIT:

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer...y900984227.asp

Originally Posted by The Irish Examiner

Church condom claims condemned

By Jim Caldwel
THE Catholic Church has been accused of telling people in countries with high rates of HIV that condoms do not protect against the deadly virus. The claims are made in a Panorama programme called Sex and the Holy City to be screened on BBC on Sunday. It says cardinals, bishops, priests and nuns in four continents are saying HIV can pass through tiny holes in condoms.

The World Health Organisation condemned the comments and warned the Vatican it is putting lives at risk. The claims come just a day after a report revealed that a young person is now infected with HIV every 14 seconds.

Half of all new infections are now in people under the age of 25 and most of these are young women living in the developing world.

Health experts around the world urge people to use condoms to protect themselves from HIV and a host of sexually transmitted infections.

However, the Catholic Church has consistently refused to back such calls. The Vatican is opposed to contraception and has advocated that people change their behaviour instead.

But according to Panorama, the Church is now telling people that condoms do not work.

In an interview, one of the Vatican's most senior cardinals Alfonso Lopez Trujillo suggested HIV could pass through condoms.

"The AIDS virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the spermatozoon. The spermatozoon can easily pass through the 'net' that is formed by the condom," he said.

The cardinal, who is president of the Vatican's Pontifical Council for the Family, suggests governments should urge people not to use condoms.

"These margins of uncertainty... should represent an obligation on the part of the health ministries and all these campaigns to act in the same way as they do with regard to cigarettes, which they state to be a danger."

The Panorama programme includes a Catholic nun advising her HIV-infected choir master not to use condoms with his wife because "the virus can pass through". Archbishop of Nairobi Raphael Ndingi Nzeki told Panorama condoms were helping to spread the virus.

"AIDS ... has grown so fast because of the availability of condoms," he said.

(SNIP)

Another story about the Panorama prog here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3176982.stm

A more sensible opinion from the Church of Uganda though: "UGANDA: Teen condom use backed by church"


Although this is taking things .... (although still related in a way)

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by Russ D

So how would you pass it on? Harsh language? Judo?

That made me laugh .. a lot.

Anyway, I fail to see why teenagers showing some responsibility and abstaining from sex before marriage could possibly be a bad thing, it's their choice afterall, no-one is forcing them into anything. I also believe scaring people into abstinence is also a very good thing, given the choice between conversing with Harry Palm and a nice festering bunch of b-cell lymphoma's ... what would you choose?

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by kronas

i know certain church leaders are advocating against the use of condoms

And the same heads of the church probably don't advocate sex before marriage.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Hasn't the Catholic church in Africa been found telling people condoms actually help spread AIDS?

I think there was an African bishop who said (last year) something along the lines off: you can still get pregnant when using a condom. I.e. if a condom can't prevent a sperm cell getting through, then how is it going to stop the AIDS virus which is even smaller than a sperm cell. The suggestion was that if an intact condom has holes large enough to let a sperm cell through, then surely something as small as a virus would get through. My feeling was that the bishop could do with a couple of science lessons...

This is from memory though, and I know I should provide a link, as per my earlier post. However, it is getting late, and I'm off to bed. :nighty:

Edit: I see tetpoclaizitl has found it. Pardon me, but do you really expect people to get your name right

[kronas]

Originally Posted by Bifta

That made me laugh .. a lot.

Anyway, I fail to see why teenagers showing some responsibility and abstaining from sex before marriage could possibly be a bad thing, it's their choice afterall, no-one is forcing them into anything. I also believe scaring people into abstinence is also a very good thing, given the choice between conversing with Harry Palm and a nice festering bunch of b-cell lymphoma's ... what would you choose?

i would choose hearing both sides of the story instead of being told, 'this is the way' this is right for you' this what you should do' and make a decision then.....

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Bifta

That made me laugh .. a lot.

Anyway, I fail to see why teenagers showing some responsibility and abstaining from sex before marriage could possibly be a bad thing, it's their choice afterall, no-one is forcing them into anything. I also believe scaring people into abstinence is also a very good thing, given the choice between conversing with Harry Palm and a nice festering bunch of b-cell lymphoma's ... what would you choose?

If it worked it would be great, but it has been PROVEN that what you get is a bunch of kids who eventually have sex but have no idea how to do it safer, spreading more disease

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by kronas

i would choose hearing both sides of the story instead of being told, 'this is the way' this is right for you' this what you should do' and make a decision then.....

You know both sides of the story, unless you're very naive sexually.

A) You have sex, you wear protection, you still run the risk of contracting a terminal sexually transmitted disease, you also run the risk if you're promiscious of spreading it around.

or

B) You don't have sex, you don't contract a sexually transmitted disease.

[Tezcatlipoca]

Originally Posted by danielf

Edit: I see tetpoclaizitl has found it. Pardon me, but do you really expect people to get your name right

"tetpoclaizitl"? LOL, that's the best mis-spelling yet

"Tez" will do

Back on track.........

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If it worked it would be great, but it has been PROVEN that what you get is a bunch of kids who eventually have sex but have no idea how to do it safer, spreading more disease

Proven where?