*ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by DieDieMyDarling

It was companies like NTL who told users how much they could download and how fast they could do it. It was the likes of NTL who sold the service based on that very fact, telling people it was unlimited, and they could get as much as they like.

The people holding back NTL are the mangement of NTL themselves, who screwed things up so badly that it'll take years to fix things, and in the meantime they'll slowly fall further and further back, while ADSL takes over the market.

It was also companies like NTL who right from the start told users what they COULD NOT DO with their connection but most complainers forget that little fact and completely disregard the parts that don't suit their requirements. Read the T&Cs and AUP and tell me I'm wrong.

[Earwig]

Originally Posted by Paul

That would be piracy and illegal, surely no-one here would use their connection in such a way and then complain about being restricted by their ISP in how much they can download each month

I have no reservations about what I use my connection for and to be honest alot of it is done on Newgroups....

I would not however consider myself a pirate and those that know the ins and outs of the meaning of the word in this sence would realise this.
To be collared with the tag "Pirate" would mean that I would either.....

A. Actually be the guy that goes into the projection booth and setup the Digital Cam and direct audio feed and encode these to SVCD. Or setup the Telecine machine to rip the digital image direct from the reel.

B. Download the above finished items and "Sell" them on to make a profit or even mass produce and sell.

These are the types that deserve the Pirate tags.

Those like myself who download for their own "personal" use are un-desreving of this tag. Also, polls on several P2P forums found that nearly 80% of those that download these releases from P2P sites are actually willing to part with their money for the original when it hits the streets. I have a huge collection of films and when they hit the shops they get ditched and the originals are bought to replace them. (as long as the film was not really bad, like say Alexander )

If downloaded from Newsgroups it is also worth noting that nothing illegal is being done on the part of the person downloading. For a person to be prosecuted for this type of thing they have to be actually "Uploading" the file and contributing to it's spread across the net. No uploading? No problem


This is not really the point though becuase it is easy to get through vast amounts of bandwidth without downloading anything that we shall call "dodgey".

In a reply to my post it was stated that I went on about the future of broadband rather than the present. But I thought I did speak alot about the present??
I pointed out about the Rental Downloads in the states and the TV in japan with Broadband and Hard disc. THAT is the PRESENT ! ! ! At least it is for these countries.....But sadly not for us. Why do we not have streamed rentals direct to our PC's or TV's?? Simply becuase we are so far behind these countries in technology.
And while we are sitting here thinking about what WE have at the present and not what OTHER countries have in the present will will ALWAYS be a step behind.

Which brings me nicely back to the 30GB cap on their top tier.

I really do fail to see how the others can cap SO MUCH higher. Not just 10-20GB more but over 240GB more! ! or 470GB more for ukonline.

Surely NTL is holding the technology and the country back and not us "Heavy" users that use it for what it was designed to do......Shift large amounts of data and lightening speed.

I have no problems about going to another I.S.P when the caps come and would quite willingly drop to a slower speed to ensure either "No" cap or at the very least a "Beleivable" one. The piont is though that I have been with NTL now since they started BB in my area and have had EXCELLENT service with them. For this reason I do not really want to leave them and would love to carry on with them.
All I ask is for a service that suits people like myself and the many others out there.

Other I.S.P's can give it to me, why not NTL??

Sorry for another long post....... :o

[HD462]

Originally Posted by DieDieMyDarling
It was companies like NTL who told users how much they could download and how fast they could do it. It was the likes of NTL who sold the service based on that very fact, telling people it was unlimited, and they could get as much as they like.

Yep, just like I remember when we got ntl in when they first arrived here about 8yrs ago (it was Comcast then), the salesman gqave his patter....the phone line rental was £4.28, and I said to him, yeah but they're bound to put the price up once they've got you on it.

Oh no he says, we're cheaper than BT, and it'll stay that way...yeah right...lol

They get you onboard with all the promises, then move the goalposts. They should be the best TV/Internet and phone provider in the country with owning their own network, it's the management that seems to fall short.

[BIGZIPZ]

If it is heavy users holding back progress then why in other countries around the world with the same heavy users are they making massive speed progress and cutting prices?

Originally Posted by Earwig

Other I.S.P's can give it to me, why not NTL

Because ntl quite obviously don't want to.

As a business they have the absolute right to provide any service they want, and impose any restrictions they desire. If these do not meet your requirements then you have the choice to go elsewhere. I would have thought it quite obvious by now that ntl do not want people who download huge amounts each month on their network, so they are going to taylor their products to discourage these people. If that makes a few thousand heavy users leave for another ISP then quite frankly I think they will be well pleased to be shot of them, and so will the rest of the customers who are suffering because of them.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Paul M

Because ntl quite obviously don't want to.

As a business they have the absolute right to provide any service they want, and impose any restrictions they desire. If these do not meet your requirements then you have the choice to go elsewhere. I would have thought it quite obvious by now that ntl do not want people who download huge amounts each month on their network, so they are going to taylor their products to discourage these people. If that makes a few thousand heavy users leave for another ISP then quite frankly I think they will be well pleased to be shot of them, and so will the rest of the customers who are suffering because of them.

Crikey, nice post ..... no wonder some people get their backs up on here

As a business they have the absolute right to provide any service they want, and impose any restrictions they desire. .... and I suppose the same applies to all your jobs that are swiftly disappearing elsewhere

... ntl do not want people who download huge amounts each month on their network ..... and they (you) define huge amounts as over 1gb per day (if I've been following this right), which immediately puts many of the aforementioned legal ways to download large files out of reach. Advancing technology = NTL at the back of the queue again

If that makes a few thousand heavy users leave for another ISP then quite frankly I think they will be well pleased to be shot of them, and so will the rest of the customers who are suffering because of them. ..... hmmm, I was under the impression there have ALWAYS been heavy users on NTL (and others), and yet this suffering we are seeing is a new(ish) phenomenon that is probably more likely to do with management than a few thousand heavy users

just my 2p .... you can shoot me if it makes you feel better

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by ian@huth

It was also companies like NTL who right from the start told users what they COULD NOT DO with their connection but most complainers forget that little fact and completely disregard the parts that don't suit their requirements. Read the T&Cs and AUP and tell me I'm wrong.

you obviously dont remember or didnt see the flyer they sent out a few years back - the one suggesting you can use your broadband connection to download films - the one with the picture of spiderman on it taken directly from the movie poster!!! They were selling the service as a product to download movies.

[PC_Arcade]

I do, and the problem with that ad (as well as the legality issue) was that it came out immediately after NTL "announced" the cap, then went on to advertise the fact that with their UNLIMITED service you could download loads of illegal movies, which understandably got people's backs up.

The timing was appalling (as per usual)

[Hans Gruber]

Well it seems Pipex is another ISP that doesn't agree caps are the future. I'm actually quite looking forward to my inevitable switch to ADSL now.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Hans Gruber

Well it seems Pipex is another ISP that doesn't agree caps are the future. I'm actually quite looking forward to my inevitable switch to ADSL now.

Must...resist...temptation...to...say..."I...told. ..you...Pipex...rocked".....

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

you obviously dont remember or didnt see the flyer they sent out a few years back - the one suggesting you can use your broadband connection to download films - the one with the picture of spiderman on it taken directly from the movie poster!!! They were selling the service as a product to download movies.

I remember it well. I am not saying that NTL are saints or have never been misleading with their advertising. What I am saying is that some people only remember one side of the matter. You hear the "I was sold NTL broadband as an unlimited service that can do this that or the other" side but not the side which covers illegal use of the service. To be honest, if you read all the information available at the time of the "Spiderman" flyer NTL were not saying that "anyone" could download the Spiderman movie. If "you" was given permission to download the film by the copyright holders then it was quite legal for you to do so. If you did not have their permission then it was illegal for you to do so. Advertising can suggest certain things are possible but you have to look at every aspect to see if it is possible for "you" to do the things legally.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by ian@huth

I remember it well. I am not saying that NTL are saints or have never been misleading with their advertising. What I am saying is that some people only remember one side of the matter. You hear the "I was sold NTL broadband as an unlimited service that can do this that or the other" side but not the side which covers illegal use of the service. To be honest, if you read all the information available at the time of the "Spiderman" flyer NTL were not saying that "anyone" could download the Spiderman movie. If "you" was given permission to download the film by the copyright holders then it was quite legal for you to do so. If you did not have their permission then it was illegal for you to do so. Advertising can suggest certain things are possible but you have to look at every aspect to see if it is possible for "you" to do the things legally.

Except they had a picture of the latest Spiderman movie on that same flyer that was telling people they could use their BB service to download movies.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by Neil

Except they had a picture of the latest Spiderman movie on that same flyer that was telling people they could use their BB service to download movies.

So, they were telling you that you could download movies which is quite correct, you can.

They were also telling you that you could download the Spiderman movie which again is quite correct if you have the copyright holders permission.

It's just like buying a fast car such as the 9 litre V8 Corvette special which averaged 235 mph on Nevada desert roads. It could be advertised quite rightly as being a car that allows you to drive at over 200 mph but try doing that on the M1 and see if you can get away with it.m I don't think that the judge would accept the fact that the advert said you could drive at over 200 mph as being mitigating circumstances for your breach of the law.

[Hans Gruber]

Originally Posted by ian@huth

So, they were telling you that you could download movies which is quite correct, you can.

They were also telling you that you could download the Spiderman movie which again is quite correct if you have the copyright holders permission.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Hans Gruber

Well it seems Pipex is another ISP that doesn't agree caps are the future. I'm actually quite looking forward to my inevitable switch to ADSL now.

Well, as I have stated many many times before, and as you have just backed up, if anyone doesn't like the restrictions NTL imposes, 99.9% of the time, they do have the freedom to go elsewhere.

I know I will be if the caps cause me a problem.