Eurozone will collapse...

[Osem]

A major problem here is that the Eurocrats have shown themselves up for what they are. The markets a) hardly believe a word coming out of the Eurozone now and b) don't believe there is the political will to tackle the growing crisis. Until that changes we can expect things to get worse and even if there is a sudden outbreak of common sense in Eurolalaland, it may be too little, too late...

Originally Posted by Chris

Germany can't agree to Eurobonds. Merkel is constitutionally forbidden to do so. This is why she speaks of such fiscal union as the desirable end of a process of integration rather than an immediate step towards integration.

For that level of sovereignty to be ceded, constitutional change requiring referendum would be needed in Germany. That cannot be done quickly and in the current climate, arguably cannot be done at all. In Germany as elsewhere the thirst for European integration is much stronger within the political class than in the population at large. Germans are already looking askance at the amount of their money thrown into a bottomless pit - they are only going to stand for so much more.

So why are the Americans and ourselves pushing for it? Are they taking a different approach, looking for a loophole?

[denphone]

Spain's Rajoy hails bank rescue as 'victory for euro'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18385634

Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy has hailed a decision by eurozone finance ministers to help Spain shore up its struggling banks as a victory for the European common currency.

"It was the credibility of the euro that won," he told reporters.

"The solidity of Spain's financial system won, the credibility of the euro won," he said, and vowed to press ahead with structural economic reforms.

Lloyds Banking Group economist, Charles Diebel, said in a report that the move was bailout "lite" and questioned whether the money would stop the rot: "Will it be enough? That's questionable as it is still prevention rather than cure and again only keeps the banking sector alive rather than really supporting growth."

Originally Posted by Damien

So why are the Americans and ourselves pushing for it? Are they taking a different approach, looking for a loophole?

The Obama administration is ideologically wedded to the idea of a united Europe. In the UK, I think there are a couple of things going on with Cameron and Osborne. On the one hand, they want to be seen to be saying all the right things, to lessen the chances of us somehow getting the blame for all this when it finally goes belly up. On the other hand, I suspect they see a federal Eurozone as the UK's once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to achieve a relative loosening of our ties with the EU without us actually having to do very much, I.e. the UK stands still while the Euro-core marches boldly into ever closer union.

[Dai]

This dates back to 2010 but the principle still stands true. Of course the situation has changed increasingly for the worse since this was written. However, the Obama administration still seems wedded to this failed principle of government.

http://www.libertoad.com/2010/05/06/...greek-bailout/

---------- Post added at 17:46 ---------- Previous post was at 17:44 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

The Eurocrats are utterly delusional. Everybody remember where you were during the summer of 2012 - we are living in historic times. Think Kennedy, think moon landing, think 9/11.

Can you hear the waves yet? The tsunami is nearly upon us.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by denphone

Spain's Rajoy hails bank rescue as 'victory for euro'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18385634

"The solidity of Spain's financial system won, the credibility of the euro won," blah blah blah...

Yeah right! Does anyone really believe that tosh?...

[Dai]

Originally Posted by Osem

Yeah right! Does anyone really believe that tosh?...

The ones with their snouts deepest in the trough?
To mix my plumbing metaphors a bit the last thing they want is for anyone to pull the plug.

Originally Posted by Osem

Yeah right! Does anyone really believe that tosh?...

Nope. Not even they believe it. But they know that matters are out of their hands - the financial markets will call time on the Euro just as soon as they please. The last card the Eurocrats have left to play is the monumental lie that they have 'fixed' everything (or in the case of Spain, 'look, it was never that serious in the first place!'). They have the slimmest of hopes that the markets will believe them, there won't be a run on Spanish banks and that nobody will put 2+2 together and realise that now Spain is a beneficiary of the EFSF rather than one of its creditors, there ain't enough Euros left in all the treasuries in the EZ to pay out when Italy goes mammaries skywards.

Precisely as many commentators have been predicting since late last year, we have gone from Greece to Spain and we can now do nothing but sit back and wait for Italy to fall.

---------- Post added at 19:16 ---------- Previous post was at 18:19 ----------

Italy must guarantee 22pc of the bail-out funds, even though it cannot raise money itself at a sustainable rate. You could hardly design a surer way to pull Italy into the fire.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...Bundebank.html

[mertle]

like way osborne saying euro crisis causing our woes to recover but forgets he blamed labour in 2008 for the mess. When it was failure to stop ponsie scheme and bankers in us with bad debt collapsing smaller banks..

It was either not labours fault therefore cameron/osborne misled the electorate or it was labours therefore its camerons and osborne failure now.

Very convenient to try blame others seems this the way with this government. Never the bankers rich deciding tax not for them to pay.

To add why we in mess in europe if not the world due to tax evading practises. Dont matter if its legal or not if too many hop on the bandwagon we have a problem.

This sort mess needs sorting else no country will survive if the corporates, rich think tax not theres to pay.

This what got greece in trouble we will be next if this caries on. 5000 homes bought in ofshore accounts since osborne changed the rules. Now time to tax transactions to uk from outside. At least we would get our tax from them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/...companies.html

Rating agencies needs more regulations there ratings mess making things alot worse than it should.

Its corrupt to the core bunch crooks who got self interesting prophacies.

There initial design to help investors decide safe investments was good. However greed and corruption with them means it become parasite which actually hinder rather helps economy. Moody's, S & P helped cause the 2008 credit crisis.

http://swampland.time.com/2011/08/06...ard-and-poors/

S&P, or Moody’s, seriously after both agencies granted AAA rating to Collateralized Debt Obligations (CDOs) that were chock-full-of crap mortgages, thereby helping to precipitate the 2008 financial collapse. Indeed, I’m amazed that in our grand and glorious free market system, some dashing entrepreneur hasn’t come along and launched a competing ratings agency without all the baggage.

Makes it a mockery how people still listens to these anymore.

About time people started to judge these advices and question there motives and decisions.

Until money men see common sense we wont recover from this.

Money men have to be sensible IMF have to go back to the corner with dunce hat on.

some serious good comments in this by people got more brains cameron, osborne, euro leaders, imf and the rating agencies.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...oodys-standard

as example

As long as debt markets exist, i.e people are able to make money of other's ultimate misery, these agencies will continue to publicly post their garbage and set the markets on their weekly rollercoaster journey. It's a self-propagating economic system that can only end in tears.
As ever, all we need to do as a global community is look at who gets rich off of data like this - the same elite that control the companies publishing this data.
Change our thinking, change our planet. The latest financial depression has been nothing more than a blatant redistribution of wealth.
How long will we allow this to continue? When 1% of the world's population controls 99% of the money?
There's a graph I'd like to see - that trend in the last ten years would be a bitter pill to swallow.

Douglas Carswell critised Osbourne in his blog for balming eurocrisis.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...borne-eurozone

[Dai]

Too much government, too much regulation.

The current situation could almost have been designed to stifle growth and protect existing corporate interests.

But what government is ever going to accept drastic reduction of their numbers and powers? Turkeys voting for Christmas? Like the planned 'bonfire of the quangos' that died a quiet death after the big initial fanfare.

Did anyone understand the OP?

Especially

It was either not labours fault therefore cameron/osborne misled the electorate or it was labours therefore its camerons and osborne failure now.

Looks like you are trying to have the best of both worlds with that statement, mertle.....

The Euro crisis didn't exist in the present form during the election, so trying to blame the Government not mentioning it is at best, disingenuous, and at worst, ignoring the facts to support your polemic....

And posting opinion/comments that are posted in a Guardian article, that does not reflect the article itself, to support your proposition - interesting approach.....

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Osem

Yeah right! Does anyone really believe that tosh?...

No but the idiots in Europe do.

Originally Posted by Hugh

The Euro crisis didn't exist in the present form during the election, so trying to blame the Government not mentioning it is at best, disingenuous, and at worst, ignoring the facts to support your polemic....

I do think it's amusing to see the current Government point to the global economy as a reason for a lack of growth/recession when they didn't seem to accept that excuse whilst in opposition. That said it's equally amusing to see Labour now say that they government can't use that excuse when they were doing so three years ago.

Both parties seem to have switched viewpoints when they switched benches.

However he is sort of right. If Labour can be blamed for the recession that occurred during a global economic crisis then the Conservatives can be blamed for a recession in a Euro-wide crisis. They can't sudden claim to have understood that all these economies are interconnected and the power of one Government alone is limited in such matters.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Did anyone understand the OP?

I'll try and analyse it for you.

It was either not labours fault therefore cameron/osborne misled the electorate or it was labours therefore its camerons and osborne failure now.

If it wasn't Labours fault. then the Conservatives misled the voters.
if it was Labours fault, then the Conservatives are being blamed for it now.

[nomadking]

The causes of the Eurozone crisis happened before 2010. It is the full effects that are now being seen. It is silly to rule out the Eurozone crisis as not being a factor. It all adds to the general nervousness to do business as you don't know what's around the corner.

The interest paid by banks to savers has been at record low levels. Any further eurozone trouble means those rates would rise later rather than sooner.

Official statistics show that nearly 47% of UK exports went to the eurozone in 2011, while nearly 43% of UK imports came from the eurozone.
A long-term spiral of decline in the economies of Europe would mean less demand for UK good and services, and that could mean job cuts, especially in manufacturing.