10-03-2019, 14:13
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#8266
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 4,050
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua
However, a second referendum would at least add a veneer of legitimacy to whichever choice is preferred.
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A veneer of legitimacy might do the trick for those on the fence, however what would work much better is the EU deciding to alter a few small details in their 'non negotiable' offer.
Much like they did with the Irish back in 2008:
The first referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon held on 12 June 2008 was rejected by the Irish electorate, by a margin of 53.4% to 46.6%, with a turnout of 53%.
The second referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon held on 2 October 2009 and the proposal was approved by 67.1% to 32.9%, with a turnout of 59%.
I know they're not obliged to do anything (hold all the cards, don't need us etc etc) but a small concession here and there may appease enough voters to accept a deal . . . and possibly quieten some of the rumblings in other EU countries?
forgot to add . . interesting but outdated (? ) read from 2008 https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-lisbon-treaty
classic last paragraph
Last edited by Carth; 10-03-2019 at 14:18.
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10-03-2019, 14:18
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#8267
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,496
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Re: Brexit
Why should the EU make concessions to appease a small number of extremists who don’t want to be in the EU anyway? If the concessions are as small as you indicate why do the ERG and their like require them at all?
Concessions to Ireland were to a member state, not a soon to be non-member.
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10-03-2019, 14:25
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#8268
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 4,050
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
Why should the EU make concessions to appease a small number of extremists who don’t want to be in the EU anyway? If the concessions are as small as you indicate why do the ERG and their like require them at all?
Concessions to Ireland were to a member state, not a soon to be non-member.
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Good point, well made . . . no deal it is then
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10-03-2019, 15:05
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#8269
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Sulking in the Corner
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
Services: 1 Gbps; Hub 4 MM; ASUS RT-AX88U; Ultimate VOLT. BT Infinity2; Devolo 1200AV
Posts: 11,955
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Re: Brexit
I’m fixated on sticking it to that perfidious Varadkar. Whether we remain or leave, I want to get even with that prejudiced man. The EU does not deserve our continued membership.
__________________
Seph.
My advice is at your risk.
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10-03-2019, 15:22
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#8270
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,330
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth
Good point, well made . . . no deal it is then
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Banter about a no-deal is likely the closest we'll ever get to one. Parliament is set to rule it out next week.
---------- Post added at 16:22 ---------- Previous post was at 16:11 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
I’m fixated on sticking it to that perfidious Varadkar. Whether we remain or leave, I want to get even with that prejudiced man. The EU does not deserve our continued membership.
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Ireland's always been the junior partner in its negotiations with the UK. Thanks to Brexit, the balance of power is reversed as the EU supports its members. It's not unexpected.
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10-03-2019, 16:42
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#8271
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,496
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth
Good point, well made . . . no deal it is then
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It’s the natural consequence of our inability to negotiate, yes. Whether the politicians can stomach it or not is another matter.
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10-03-2019, 19:00
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#8272
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10 yrs same company 😁
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Expanding Town with crap roads
Age: 64
Services: ? BB, basic phone. Share of Disney+
Posts: 7,665
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
It’s the natural consequence of our inability to negotiate, yes. Whether the politicians can stomach it or not is another matter.
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With Labour flip flopping more often than a pancake vendor, who knows?
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10-03-2019, 22:34
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#8273
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,330
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua
With Labour flip flopping more often than a pancake vendor, who knows?
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Yes. Latest iteration seems to be to request an extension so a softer Brexit can be negotiated. But as with any Brexit option be it No-deal, Remain, May's deal or a Norwegian-style deal, would there be a majority for it in Parliament?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...eresa-may-deal
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10-03-2019, 22:56
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#8274
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laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,250
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Re: Brexit
Perhaps, just perhaps, we should have agreed an approach before we went to discuss it with the EU?
Basic rule of consultancy* - agree the approach before you meet the clients, and if anything comes up in the meeting that is out of scope, "we need to take that back to discuss a way forward".
Rule 1 - Agreed approach
Rule 2 - Show single view (pre-requisite is Stage 1)
Rule 3 - if problem arises, ‘let us go away and think about that". Then loop back to Rule 1
*I know, I know - I was young, I needed the money...
__________________
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If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
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10-03-2019, 23:15
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#8275
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
Services: Virgin Media TV&BB 350Mb,
V6 STB
Posts: 7,867
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Re: Brexit
If certain people are going to insist on a customs union, why not choose the Turkey model rather than the Norway model? Customs union except for in certain areas, NO freedom of movement, and to cap it all the EU GIVES you billions.
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10-03-2019, 23:22
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#8276
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,330
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
If certain people are going to insist on a customs union, why not choose the Turkey model rather than the Norway model? Customs union except for in certain areas, NO freedom of movement, and to cap it all the EU GIVES you billions.
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If we became as poor as Turkey and wanted to join the EU, I'm sure we would be offered a similar deal.
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10-03-2019, 23:41
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#8277
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
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V6 STB
Posts: 7,867
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
If we became as poor as Turkey and wanted to join the EU, I'm sure we would be offered a similar deal.
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According to the remain side, if no deal goes ahead we will be as poor.
Norway isn't part of the EU and doesn't want to be. When their oil and gas runs out, will their sovereign fund generate enough to fund the inflated wages previously in the oil and gas industries?
We are a very different economy to Norway and Turkey.
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11-03-2019, 00:07
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#8278
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Jarrow Tyne & Wear
Services: V.I.P 120 tivo and v+
Posts: 5,811
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth
Good point, well made . . . no deal it is then
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only way we get a no deal is have a second referendum as MP's vote no deal out completely on Wednesday rightly so and no not saying they should be a second referendum
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11-03-2019, 00:25
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#8279
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,330
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
According to the remain side, if no deal goes ahead we will be as poor.
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Lol, I'm sure you're joking but if you're serious I'd love to see a link.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
Norway isn't part of the EU and doesn't want to be.
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Norway has had a close referendum result similar to the UK's. (1994: 52.2% no, 47.8% yes). So it has retained its half-way house with the aim of keeping the whole country unified. This has worked economically but apparently there would be a strong majority not to join the EU if there was another vote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
When their oil and gas runs out, will their sovereign fund generate enough to fund the inflated wages previously in the oil and gas industries?
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Presumably, those jobs are paid on a supply and demand basis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
We are a very different economy to Norway and Turkey.
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Agreed. The City is not keen on the Norway model as we wouldn't have input on financial services regulation, a key sector for us.
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11-03-2019, 00:50
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#8280
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Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,105
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42
only way we get a no deal is have a second referendum as MP's vote no deal out completely on Wednesday rightly so and no not saying they should be a second referendum
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Wrong.
You still don't get it, it doesn't matter what vote takes place and how it goes on Wednesday, the vote may very well be pulled yet, to keep no deal, on the table, even so, you're forgetting the leave date is enshrined in to law, delaying A50 will not be enough on it's own, Statute can only override Statute, the default is leaving the EU, deal or no deal on 29th March 2019.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
Why should the EU make concessions to appease a small number of extremists who don’t want to be in the EU anyway? If the concessions are as small as you indicate why do the ERG and their like require them at all?
Concessions to Ireland were to a member state, not a soon to be non-member.
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Leaving the EU is not an extremist view, nor is it a small number and you would do well to take note of the rules in the first post, ignore them again at your own peril.
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