Brexit (Old)

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Westminster council are saying that, up until just over a year ago, they, the police and immigration officials could move them on or send them home. They say that since this EU ruling all that they can do is ask them to go home. This rarely achieves the desired result.

The relevant section of the programme explains this, i'm sure that if what you are saying was doable that they'd use this to achieve their aims.

---------- Post added at 14:25 ---------- Previous post was at 14:24 ----------



That's out of date eg it talks about 2014 as a future point in time.

Scrapping freedom of movement need not affect anyone wanting to come here to do hard to fill vacancies or to work in skill shortage areas. It's their right to come here that is so objectionable.

Which EU ruling?

Watching the programme, it was the English High Court that decided it was against the EU Freedom of Movement rules, not the EU.

Her ruling found the practice unlawful on three grounds, including by allowing banned “systematic verification” – effectively sweeping for people to deport without reasonable grounds.

The Danish still remove foreign rough sleepers, and they were willing to share their legislation with London (as shown in the programme).

[Angua]

Originally Posted by ianch99

You are still wrong I am afraid. The definition of a democratic mandate is not the absolute number that voted but rather the percentage of the available electorate that voted for the motion. The UK has a larger population than in 1975 so the electorate is larger in numeric terms.

By your simplistic definition, the USA is "more" democratic than us because more people voted a particular way in the election.

Your approach to this issue, like others, mirrors the Leave campaign and all that led up to it. Take a fact and re-spin it into an alternative "fact" and then shout it from the rooftops, endlessly, as the "truth" until enough people start thinking it really is the truth.



Again, incorrect. In 1975, we were told about the increased political union:

UK Voters knew the 1975 Referendum was about both an ‘economic & political union’ with the rest of Europe





On what grounds?

I have a horrible feeling that the peace being part of the EU has brought over the last 40 years is part of the problem.

People seem to be itching for a fight, becoming increasingly angry over the slightest thing. Racism is growing, whilst methods of reducing it are missing the point. Silencing critique of ideas with spurious labels, rather than facing them and admitting problems. Society becoming more polarised is not helping.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Westminster council are saying that, up until just over a year ago, they, the police and immigration officials could move them on or send them home. They say that since this EU ruling all that they can do is ask them to go home. This rarely achieves the desired result.

The relevant section of the programme explains this, i'm sure that if what you are saying was doable that they'd use this to achieve their aims.

---------- Post added at 14:25 ---------- Previous post was at 14:24 ----------



That's out of date eg it talks about 2014 as a future point in time.

Scrapping freedom of movement need not affect anyone wanting to come here to do hard to fill vacancies or to work in skill shortage areas. It's their right to come here that is so objectionable.

Great, show me the superseded version then please? If you're that knowledgeable it shouldn't take you long to find !!

https://news.sky.com/story/bmw-may-s...rexit-11655739

BMW has stepped up its warnings over a no-deal Brexit, telling Sky News that production of the Mini in Oxford may be at risk.

Peter Schwarzenbauer, the German car giant's board member responsible for Mini and Rolls Royce cars, said the firm would "need to consider" moving production from the UK as the company could not absorb the extra costs they would inevitably face.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

It is part of the EU rules that if someone moves to another country under Freedom of Movement of Workers, and don't have a job in 3 months, they can be sent home - the fact that our Government doesn't do this isn't the fault of the EU.

In a Channel 5 programme from 2015, which was repeated a month ago, there was a Slovakian Roma couple who came here(to Rotherham) with TWENTY-TWO children and grandchildren. Only one of them employed, all of them housed, given benefits etc. It was said that there were an estimated 6,000 Slovakian Roma just in Rotherham.



Link.

The government is to pay hundreds of thousands of pounds to European rough sleepers who were illegally detained and deported.
Figures obtained by the BBC reveal that in the year to May 2017, 698 homeless EU nationals were targeted and removed from the country.
The Home Office said no further action was being taken against European citizens for rough sleeping.

The Home Office said the EU's Free Movement Directive allowed member states to impose restrictions on people in certain situations, including where there were concerns about security, public health, or fraud.

---------- Post added at 16:11 ---------- Previous post was at 16:03 ----------

Originally Posted by Angua

I have a horrible feeling that the peace being part of the EU has brought over the last 40 years is part of the problem.

People seem to be itching for a fight, becoming increasingly angry over the slightest thing. Racism is growing, whilst methods of reducing it are missing the point. Silencing critique of ideas with spurious labels, rather than facing them and admitting problems. Society becoming more polarised is not helping.

The EU was only formed in 1993, and there are countries that are in the EU now, but weren't then and before. Before then, were they at war? NO, they weren't. So nearly 40 years of peace, BEFORE the EU was formed.

Originally Posted by nomadking

In a Channel 5 programme from 2015, which was repeated a month ago, there was a Slovakian Roma couple who came here(to Rotherham) with TWENTY-TWO children and grandchildren. Only one of them employed, all of them housed, given benefits etc. It was said that there were an estimated 6,000 Slovakian Roma just in Rotherham.



Link.






---------- Post added at 16:11 ---------- Previous post was at 16:03 ----------


The EU was only formed in 1993, and there are countries that are in the EU now, but weren't then and before. Before then, were they at war? NO, they weren't. So nearly 40 years of peace, BEFORE the EU was formed.

Once again, up to the U.K. Government to ship them back - can’t blame the EU if we don’t enforce the rules...

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by nomadking

In a Channel 5 programme from 2015, which was repeated a month ago, there was a Slovakian Roma couple who came here(to Rotherham) with TWENTY-TWO children and grandchildren. Only one of them employed, all of them housed, given benefits etc. It was said that there were an estimated 6,000 Slovakian Roma just in Rotherham.



Link.






---------- Post added at 16:11 ---------- Previous post was at 16:03 ----------


The EU was only formed in 1993, and there are countries that are in the EU now, but weren't then and before. Before then, were they at war? NO, they weren't. So nearly 40 years of peace, BEFORE the EU was formed.

The EU may have been officially formed n it's current iteration in 93, but the founding ideology and principals began way back in 1950. Now, what ceased only a few years earlier?

---------- Post added at 16:40 ---------- Previous post was at 16:39 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Great, show me the superseded version then please? If you're that knowledgeable it shouldn't take you long to find !!

I'll take the lack of reply as an inability to provide any evidence to the contrary and that despite the age of the above it still holds true

[Angua]

Originally Posted by nomadking

<nipped>

The EU was only formed in 1993, and there are countries that are in the EU now, but weren't then and before. Before then, were they at war? NO, they weren't. So nearly 40 years of peace, BEFORE the EU was formed.

The first European elections were held in 1979. The EU did not suddenly spring into existence in 1993, it grew over time from the seed of an idea following WW2. The peace that began, spread to a united Germany, Poland out from under the yolk of the USSR, along with all the other eastern countries joining the EU.

Peace & unity are great things to work towards. Just sad that xenophobia seems to be getting too much air time.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Once again, up to the U.K. Government to ship them back - can’t blame the EU if we don’t enforce the rules...

We were shipping them back.

Figures obtained by the BBC reveal that in the year to May 2017, 698 homeless EU nationals were targeted and removed from the country.

---------- Post added at 16:55 ---------- Previous post was at 16:46 ----------

Originally Posted by Angua

The first European elections were held in 1979. The EU did not suddenly spring into existence in 1993, it grew over time from the seed of an idea following WW2. The peace that began, spread to a united Germany, Poland out from under the yolk of the USSR, along with all the other eastern countries joining the EU.

Peace & unity are great things to work towards. Just sad that xenophobia seems to be getting too much air time.

It was the European ECONOMIC community before 1993.

Treaty on European Union - Maastricht Treaty
Signed: 7 February 1992
Entered into force: 1 November 1993
Purpose: to prepare for European Monetary Union and introduce elements of a political union (citizenship, common foreign and internal affairs policy).
Main changes: establishment of the European Union and introduction of the co-decision procedure, giving Parliament more say in decision-making. New forms of cooperation between EU governments – for example on defence and justice and home affairs.

The fact remains that countries that are now in the EU, were at peace when they were outside it.

[mrmistoffelees]

Nissan now warning about production decreases

https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-co...urces-11655931

[denphone]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Nissan now warning about production decreases

https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-co...urces-11655931

The drip drip is increasingly becoming a flood..

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Nissan now warning about production decreases

https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-co...urces-11655931

A Nissan spokesman told Sky News that it was "rumour or speculation".
It comes weeks after Sky News revealed that Nissan would not make its new X-Trail model in Sunderland - Britain's biggest car plant - as previously planned.

That decision was blamed on emissions regulations and reduced sales forecasts, while the company added that uncertainty around Brexit was "not helping".

"uncertainty" refers to a decision not being made, NOT what the decision is. The "uncertainty" is a result of the Remain side obstructing a decision.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

"uncertainty" refers to a decision not being made, NOT what the decision is. The "uncertainty" is a result of the Remain side obstructing a decision.

On the contrary. It’s the lack of a single vision of the leave side. Is it May’s deal? No deal? Something else?

A single clear vision of Brexit would win the argument surely. After all 17.4 million people knew exactly the type of Brexit they were voting for.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

On the contrary. It’s the lack of a single vision of the leave side. Is it May’s deal? No deal? Something else?

A single clear vision of Brexit would win the argument surely. After all 17.4 million people knew exactly the type of Brexit they were voting for.

The "deal" is NOT a deal, it is just interim arrangements. Doesn't matter how clear or otherwise a vision is, when there are so many people determined to sabotage the democratic vote.

No deal better than uncertainty, says head of German industry

The head of the German federation of industries has claimed the British are “lost” and has thrown doubt on Berlin’s backing for a short Brexit extension, claiming an “economy can live better with bad conditions than with uncertainty”.

variable noun Uncertainty is a state of doubt about the future or about what is the right thing to do.
...a period of political uncertainty.
...the uncertainties of life on the West Coast. [+ of]
Synonyms: unpredictability, precariousness, state of suspense, ambiguity

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The "deal" is NOT a deal, it is just interim arrangements. Doesn't matter how clear or otherwise a vision is, when there are so many people determined to sabotage the democratic vote.

No deal better than uncertainty, says head of German industry

No disagreements from me. I’m quite sure Germany will be better off in the event of no deal Brexit. I agree with the head of the German equivalent of the CBI.