Brexit (Old)

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by Mick

He speaks for me and everyone else I know who voted to leave the EU - we want to be out totally from that corrupted con job union. That's what leaving meant to me and us. So yes, in essence, he speaks for me and everyone associated to me, who also voted to leave the con job union. He does not just speak for himself.

But surely this logic of yours, also applies to Remainers then, who constantly tell us Brexiteers we got it wrong - that we voted the wrong way, no we did not get it wrong, there is nothing to get wrong, it is called democracy and we voted to leave the EU.

This is a tiresome, old pathetic argument and it needs to be laid to rest.

He can only speak for you if you want him to speak for you. But that's you, you're not 17 million people. People have differing opinions even if they voted the same way as you. Stop being entitled and believing 17+ million people all have the same opinion as you.

You're right it is a tiresome and pathetic argument, so stop repeating 17+ million people all voted for the same thing (you haven't here but I'm sure you did before), different people had different opinions of what leave or remain actually meant.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Mick

He speaks for me and everyone else I know who voted to leave the EU - we want to be out totally from that corrupted con job union. That's what leaving meant to me and us. So yes, in essence, he speaks for me and everyone associated to me, who also voted to leave the con job union. He does not just speak for himself.

But surely this logic of yours, also applies to Remainers then, who constantly tell us Brexiteers we got it wrong - that we voted the wrong way, no we did not get it wrong, there is nothing to get wrong, it is called democracy and we voted to leave the EU.

This is a tiresome, old pathetic argument and it needs to be laid to rest.

Ah, here we have it Ladies and Gentlemen. Mick and everyone associated to Mick, speak for the entire 37% of the Electorate who voted Leave.

Good to know. Best tell Mori and YouGov, they are wasting their money. All they need to do is to ring Mick and his mates ask them what everyone thinks.

Originally Posted by ianch99

Ah, here we have it Ladies and Gentlemen. Mick and everyone associated to Mick, speak for the entire 37% of the Electorate who voted Leave.

Good to know. Best tell Mori and YouGov, they are wasting their money. All they need to do is to ring Mick and his mates ask them what everyone thinks.

There you go again with that erroneous figure...

[mrmistoffelees]

The Attorney General has abandoned attempts to secure a hard time-limit or unilateral exit mechanism from the Irish backstop, The Telegraph has been told.

Ministers briefed on Geoffrey Cox's approach said those aims, which represent the central demands of Eurosceptics, are considered too "blunt" and have been rejected by the European Union.

Some Cabinet ministers are already resigned to the Prime Minister losing a second meaningful vote on her deal amid concerns that changes to the backstop secured by Mr Cox will not be sufficient to win round Brexiteers.

Now what Mrs. May?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

If you think you're going to be able to ban IBP and their like then you have another think coming.


US vs EU Food standards as a whole

https://www.ecowatch.com/13-ways-the...881850175.html

So how many of them are unsafe and only have been implemented in the EU in the previous few years to that report(2014)?


Still doesn't change the fact that chlorinated washing was banned by the EU because it does a BETTER job than their alternative. Chlorinated washing meant that bad abattoirs meant the post-wash chicken met the required standards, whereas better abattoirs didn't need such a good treatment to meet those same standards. If chlorinated washing was allowed, then the post-wash standard of the chickens from the better abattoirs would be BETTER than it is now.


An example of the UK and EU being free and easy with food welfare is in relation to animal slaughter. Kosher and Halal slaughter is held to lesser standards. Although UK law insists the religious slaughter only takes place to provide meat for those religions, how much of that is followed?

The HFA estimates 15% of all meat slaughtered in the UK is halal compliant.

Are Muslims consuming 15% of UK meat? I assume the 100% includes Pork, so their non-pork consumption is much higher than 15%.

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

The Attorney General has abandoned attempts to secure a hard time-limit or unilateral exit mechanism from the Irish backstop, The Telegraph has been told.

Ministers briefed on Geoffrey Cox's approach said those aims, which represent the central demands of Eurosceptics, are considered too "blunt" and have been rejected by the European Union.

Some Cabinet ministers are already resigned to the Prime Minister losing a second meaningful vote on her deal amid concerns that changes to the backstop secured by Mr Cox will not be sufficient to win round Brexiteers.

Now what Mrs. May?

I think she'll decide it's too much like hard work and will find a way to stay in. I only hope that if we do end up staying it won't be on terms eye wateringly worse that those we have at the moment.

[Brunel]

"Why the UK cannot see that Brexit is utterly, utterly stupid

The British press helped condone austerity. It's now blinding us to the stupidity of Brexit."


https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...-stupid?fbclid

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by nomadking

So how many of them are unsafe and only have been implemented in the EU in the previous few years to that report(2014)?


Still doesn't change the fact that chlorinated washing was banned by the EU because it does a BETTER job than their alternative. Chlorinated washing meant that bad abattoirs meant the post-wash chicken met the required standards, whereas better abattoirs didn't need such a good treatment to meet those same standards. If chlorinated washing was allowed, then the post-wash standard of the chickens from the better abattoirs would be BETTER than it is now.


An example of the UK and EU being free and easy with food welfare is in relation to animal slaughter. Kosher and Halal slaughter is held to lesser standards. Although UK law insists the religious slaughter only takes place to provide meat for those religions, how much of that is followed?

Are Muslims consuming 15% of UK meat? I assume the 100% includes Pork, so their non-pork consumption is much higher than 15%.

Again, random murmurings with no actual documented evidence to support your argument

'It all comes down to money and efficiency of space. The majority of farmers do care about rearing their birds, but as profit margins can be very tight, animal welfare is sidelined to keep costs down. In the EU, cost is also important, but the law means it can’t come at the expense of the birds’ basic welfare. There is a legal minimum amount of space, lighting and ventilation for EU poultry-rearing houses.

The more space the birds have to move around in, the fewer can be housed in a single area, which in turn has an effect on production costs. As there are no laws governing this in the US, the birds can be crammed in tightly so they have limited movement, with little light or ventilation. This reduces production costs but increases the risks of disease and contamination in a flock.

Washing the chickens in a strong chlorine solution (20-50 parts per million of chlorine) provides a brash, cost-effective method of killing any microorganisms on the surface of the bird, particularly bacteria such as species of Salmonella and Campylobacter. This helps prevent the meat being contaminated with microbes during slaughter and evisceration.'


So, a country where there is no minimum standard for poultry welfare, vs the EU which has said standards and you're OK with this? and best of all Chlorine washing as it's a process doesn't have to be included on the packaging....

---------- Post added at 14:25 ---------- Previous post was at 14:14 ----------

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

I think she'll decide it's too much like hard work and will find a way to stay in. I only hope that if we do end up staying it won't be on terms eye wateringly worse that those we have at the moment.

Yup, regardless of what happens 17.4 million people in this country have collectively wasted a mountain of money.

---------- Post added at 14:28 ---------- Previous post was at 14:25 ----------

Originally Posted by Brunel

"Why the UK cannot see that Brexit is utterly, utterly stupid

The British press helped condone austerity. It's now blinding us to the stupidity of Brexit."


https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...-stupid?fbclid

Won't disagree on any of that.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

We have not got close to negotiating a trade deal with the EU, that will be the interesting bit! We're just sorting out the withdrawal agreement at the moment!

A lot of people seem to be confusing the withdrawal agreement with the trade deal.

I believe that once the withdrawal agreement goes through, we will be out of the woods. Leaving the EU is the emotive part of this business.

---------- Post added at 14:49 ---------- Previous post was at 14:47 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Raising genuine concern should not be treat as doom mongering.

Liam Fox, the same Liam Fox who can't get the forty deals he promised in time delivered?

the forty deals that nowhere near completion Liam Fox?[COLOR="Silver"]

I would urge you to watch it. He explains the position on the trade deals.

---------- Post added at 14:56 ---------- Previous post was at 14:49 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Are you saying everyone fully knew the consequences of voting to leave?

The consequences for the immediate future of remaining in the EU were known.

What consequences, for heaven's sake?

Dictionary definition of 'leave': depart from; go away from; withdraw from; retire from; take oneself off from; exit from; take one's leave of; pull out of; quit; be gone from; decamp from; disappear from; abandon ; vacate;.......

How many more definitions do we need? We were out of the EU before we joined, so it's not that difficult to envisage!

---------- Post added at 14:59 ---------- Previous post was at 14:56 ----------

Originally Posted by Mythica

No. You said Brexiters knew what they were doing. You don't speak for 17+ million people, you speak for yourself and yourself only. I didn't really know what anything fully meant. I made a decision based on what I thought was better for myself and the country. But I don't pretend to speak for millions of people.

And yet, time and time again, you hear leave-voting people on Question Time, in the pubs and just about everywhere insist that they knew exactly what leave meant.

I suppose, as an ardent remainer, you can speak on behalf of the leavers, can you? Like hell!

---------- Post added at 15:00 ---------- Previous post was at 14:59 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

He speaks for me and everyone else I know who voted to leave the EU - we want to be out totally from that corrupted con job union. That's what leaving meant to me and us. So yes, in essence, he speaks for me and everyone associated to me, who also voted to leave the con job union. He does not just speak for himself.

But surely this logic of yours, also applies to Remainers then, who constantly tell us Brexiteers we got it wrong - that we voted the wrong way, no we did not get it wrong, there is nothing to get wrong, it is called democracy and we voted to leave the EU.

This is a tiresome, old pathetic argument and it needs to be laid to rest.

Hear, hear! I'm beginning to wonder if the remainers fully understood the consequences of remaining.

---------- Post added at 15:01 ---------- Previous post was at 15:00 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

Total crap!

You said:



Your best buddy Liam Fox said:

I was talking about the remainers!

The deal with the EU is all but done. Just need to sort out Parliament now!

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

A lot of people seem to be confusing the withdrawal agreement with the trade deal.

I believe that once the withdrawal agreement goes through, we will be out of the woods. Leaving the EU is the emotive part of this business.

---------- Post added at 14:49 ---------- Previous post was at 14:47 ----------


I would urge you to watch it. He explains the position on the trade deals.

---------- Post added at 14:56 ---------- Previous post was at 14:49 ----------



What consequences, for heaven's sake?

Dictionary definition of 'leave': depart from; go away from; withdraw from; retire from; take oneself off from; exit from; take one's leave of; pull out of; quit; be gone from; decamp from; disappear from; abandon ; vacate;.......

How many more definitions do we need? We were out of the EU before we joined, so it's not that difficult to envisage!

---------- Post added at 14:59 ---------- Previous post was at 14:56 ----------



And yet, time and time again, you hear leave-voting people on Question Time, in the pubs and just about everywhere insist that they knew exactly what leave meant.

I suppose, as an ardent remainer, you can speak on behalf of the leavers, can you? Like hell!

---------- Post added at 15:00 ---------- Previous post was at 14:59 ----------



Hear, hear! I'm beginning to wonder if the remainers fully understood the consequences of remaining.

---------- Post added at 15:01 ---------- Previous post was at 15:00 ----------



I was talking about the remainers!

The deal with the EU is all but done. Just need to sort out Parliament now!

People on question time or down pubs still isn't 17 million is it. I'm not speaking on behalf of anyone unlike you. Also have I stated I'm a remainer? And even if I am, I wouldn't call myself ardent. That's just something you've made up to suit your own agenda on the subject. Your original statement was false.

[Carth]

Get home from work, boot the computer up while making a coffee, sit and read the latest 4 pages of the Great Brexit Debate on here . . much more entertaining than BBC news and a damn sight less adverts than Sky News

Anyway, what I've learnt in the last 30 minutes:

1) I didn't know what I was voting for (but believed all the lies)
2) Chlorinated chicken is the same as Cold washed chicken . . but different.
3) The USA are attempting to bully us into buying all their rubbish
4) The EU are cutting back handouts to member states . . probably because they'll miss our £millions
6) Immigrants don't have a negative effect on the UK (housing/health/education/jobs)
7) May still hasn't got a clue what to do . . so let's just wave bye bye

. . . who needs a TV?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

You've missed the point...

If both methods reduce the same results (as above) , let's not add another nasty chemical into the mix.

They DON'T yield the same results. That was the very reason for the ban. The bad abattoirs could reach the final required hygiene standards by using a chlorinated wash. The ban was supposedly intended to make it so that they couldn't reach those standards and would therefore have to clean up their act instead. The safer option would've been to reduce the acceptable post-wash standard so they couldn't meet that. But either the chlorinated wash process is so good that it wasn't possible to reduce the standard or it was aimed at shutting other countries, eg the US, out of the EU.


UK POST-wash

About 50% of the chicken sold in the UK carries the bacteria.

US PRE-wash(of whatever sort)

In a study colleagues and I conducted involving the US commercial broiler production system, we found Campylobacter in 45% of flocks and on 93% of farms. [4] Interestingly, we also found a substantial variation in Campylobacter prevalence, with some houses and farms consistently producing Campylobacter-free or Campylobacter-positive flocks over multiple production cycles.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

So, at a very generous MAXIMUM 200 people? that's a massive 0.0014367816091954023% of total leave voters, hardly a large amount.

So let me get this right. Remaine logic purports that Brexit voters didn't know what they were voting for but remainers did.

Is this the old uneducated voting rearing its head again?

I'm sure you think I and many others enjoy being told we didn't know what we were voting for.

I don't know what you think you are that gives you the right to even suggest that anyone didn't know what they were voting for. I do know what I think you are.

This is not aimed at just you but anyone else on here that puts forward this tired done to death argument.

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by pip08456

So let me get this right. Remaine logic purports that Brexit voters didn't know what they were voting for but remainers did.

Is this the old uneducated voting rearing its head again?

I'm sure you think I and many others enjoy being told we didn't know what we were voting for.

I don't know what you think you are that gives you the right to even suggest that anyone didn't know what they were voting for. I do know what I think you are.

This is not aimed at just you but anyone else on here that puts forward this tired done to death argument.

Or maybe it's because people have come out and said it themselves.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Mythica

Or maybe it's because people have come out and said it themselves.

How many? 10, 50, 100, 200?