smoking and the pub

[clarie]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Currently you have the right to choose whether to go into a smoking establishment or not to eat something.
After the ban, smokers will not have this right.

Smokers can go anywhere they like, they just can't smoke inside.

[lippy]

Chris,i edited it to show the two points you said.

Usually just you and the missus,but not always!

Your taking kids in a pub which allows smoking.
If your so anti smoking, why subject kids to it until the law changes?

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Are people being forced into smoking establishments?
No.
So why should smokers be forced out of smoking establishments?

Yes, people are being forced into smoking establishments because if they want a night out, there's nowhere else to go!

Why should smokers be forced out? Because their minority behaviour has an unacceptable impact on the majority. Making things harder for them might also encourage them to quit a habit that's likely to kill them also.

It's that simple!

[Chris W]

Originally Posted by clarie

Smokers can go anywhere they like, they just can't smoke inside.

oh, anywhere except in the actual pub! hardly anywhere is it?

That means if i want to smoke and drink together, then i have to a) find a pub with a beer garden, b) have my drink in a plastic glass, and c) only go to the pub in nice weather.

Anti-smokers are really starting to wind me up now. Last weekend i went to Toby Carvery which has an eating area (non smoking) and both smoking and non smoking sections in the bar. After my main course i fancied a fag, so i went over to the smoking area. The place was relatively quite, plenty of free tables in all areas, and a woman sat in the smoking area turned round to me and said "excuse me can you go and smoke somewhere else because i've got asthma". WTF? If you have asthma don't sit in the bloody smoking area. 3/4 of the place is non smoking, so my guess is she sat in the smoking area just to **** off smokers.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by clarie

Smokers can go anywhere they like, they just can't smoke inside.

Ok, I'll repeat what I just said and hopefully clarify things for you.
At the moment, a smoker can sit down, have a meal in a smoking establishment and smoke at the same time.
Non smokers have the choice to go into the same establishment, and sit down and eat with the smokers (or in the non-smoking area although some people on here seem to have been to some really bad restaurants as they say the non-smoking area is smokey whereas I've never been in such a place) or they can choose not to go in and sit down and have a meal with smokers.
That to me is fair.
Everyone chooses what they want to do based on their personal view of a legal activity (ie smoking)

After the ban, smokers will not be able to have a cigarette while having their meal, and as a non-smoker, I won't have the choice to go into smoking establishments and enjoy a meal with my friends who do smoke.

Do you know understand the issue here?
My right to choose is being infringed upon.

Do you really think it is reasonable for you to walk into a smoking establishment through your own free choice and request all the smokers stop just for you?

Originally Posted by Chris T

Yes, people are being forced into smoking establishments because if they want a night out, there's nowhere else to go!

Why should smokers be forced out? Because their minority behaviour has an unacceptable impact on the majority. Making things harder for them might also encourage them to quit a habit that's likely to kill them also.

It's that simple!

If going into a smoking establishment is so unreasonable Chris, then don't do it.
If the need to go into the pub "for a good time" is greater than your own health concerns then frankly what are you complaining about?
If a pub is too smokey for me, I will not go in there. Simple as that.
Either you accept the risks and go in, or if they're unacceptable, you don't.

[Salu]

Do I have a right to urinate in the middle of the lounge of a pub? No, I go to the toilet and come back to my seat. I do this because of the social impact it has on others.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Salu

Do I have a right to urinate in the middle of the lounge of a pub? No, I go to the toilet and come back to my seat. I do this because of the social impact it has on others.

However, if the AUP of the establishment was that patrons could urinate in the middle of the lounge, you'd have no right to complain if someone does it.
If you don't like it, go to a different pub with an AUP which is more suited to your needs.

I don't like drunk people who spoil my night out.
Should we therefore ban alcohol from pubs so that my night isn't spoilt, and the anti-social and poor health effects of drinking do not occur?

[Salu]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

However, if the AUP of the establishment was that patrons could urinate in the middle of the lounge, you'd have no right to complain if someone does it.
If you don't like it, go to a different pub with an AUP which is more suited to your needs.

AUP ??

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Salu

AUP ??

Acceptable User Policy
Basically the house rules.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by NEONKNIGHT

Most people agree passive smoking is bad for your health, I do. So, why shouldn't it be left up to the discretion of the landlord whether he allows smoking in his/her establishment? Surely it is up to the individual whether they use that pub or not. Maybe large signs should be put above the door saying whether smoking is allowed or not - you can then make up your own mind to enter or not. As for the staff, the same should apply, they make the descision to work in a place that accepts smoking or not. Problem solved.

Because that doesn't suit the non-smokers divine rights.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If going into a smoking establishment is so unreasonable Chris, then don't do it.
If the need to go into the pub "for a good time" is greater than your own health concerns then frankly what are you complaining about?
If a pub is too smokey for me, I will not go in there. Simple as that.
Either you accept the risks and go in, or if they're unacceptable, you don't.

But your reasoning is not self evident, as you present it to be. It works only for the one who can speak from a position of power. Currently, smokers have the power. They, however, are a minority, and the democratic majority are about to take that power from them. The situation will then appear thus:

If going into a smoke-free establishment is so unreasonable, don't do it.
If the need to smoke in a pub is greater than your own health concerns, then frankly, what are you complaining about?
If a pub's smoke-free status is too much for you, don't go in there. Simple as that. (You can smoke at home).
Either you accept the wishes of the majority and go in, without your fags, or if you can't go without your fags, you don't.

[Salu]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

I don't like drunk people who spoil my night out.
Should we therefore ban alcohol from pubs so that my night isn't spoilt, and the anti-social and poor health effects of drinking do not occur?

You are repeating a lot of the thread's previous discussed issues. The problem with that arguement is that alcohol does not have an impact on my health anywhere near the degree that passive smoking does.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Chris T

But your reasoning is not self evident, as you present it to be. It works only for the one who can speak from a position of power. Currently, smokers have the power. They, however, are a minority, and the democratic majority are about to take that power from them. The situation will then appear thus:

If going into a smoke-free establishment is so unreasonable, don't do it.
If the need to smoke in a pub is greater than your own health concerns, then frankly, what are you complaining about?
If a pub's smoke-free status is too much for you, don't go in there. Simple as that. (You can smoke at home).
Either you accept the wishes of the majority and go in, without your fags, or if you can't go without your fags, you don't.

The power lies with the establishment owner.
The majority of the UK population may be non-smokers like myself, but the majority of customers at the Nag's Head down the road are smokers.
Anyone who enters that establishment currently has the choice to do so or not, knowing full well the dangers of going in.

Originally Posted by Salu

You are repeating a lot of the thread's previous discussed issues. The problem with that arguement is that alcohol does not have an impact on my health anywhere near the degree that passive smoking does.

Really?
How many deaths on the road are due to people under the influence of nicotine?
How many people end up in hospital because someone under the influence of nicotine has attacked them?
How many people are unable to get emergency treatment because the A&E department is full of people under the influence of nicotine?

The problem with your argument against it is that you are forgetting that you have the choice not to go into a smokey pub, therefore the choice of whether to partake in passive smoking or not.

[clarie]

Originally Posted by Chris W

oh, anywhere except in the actual pub! hardly anywhere is it?

That means if i want to smoke and drink together, then i have to a) find a pub with a beer garden, b) have my drink in a plastic glass, and c) only go to the pub in nice weather.

You miss the point. As a smoker you can go anywhere you like, except for thos few moments when you want to smoke.

And if you want to smoke and drink together, yes, you have to go to a bit of trouble to do so. Sorry, but smoking is your habit and your problem, not mine. Although as I have said before in this thread, I would argue for a sealed room for smokers.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

After the ban, smokers will not be able to have a cigarette while having their meal, and as a non-smoker, I won't have the choice to go into smoking establishments and enjoy a meal with my friends who do smoke.

That's correct. You will, however be able to have a meal with your friends who smoke, they just won't be able to smoke inside.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Do you know understand the issue here?
My right to choose is being infringed upon.

I am not as concerned about your right to choose as I am about your, mine and everyone else's right to enjoy good health.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

the majority of customers at the Nag's Head down the road are smokers.

But that is a self-selecting group, so it doesn't really prove anything.

When 75% of people don't smoke, but only 40-50% of the people at the pub are non-smokers, you have to wonder why the non-smokers are staying away.