Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS? - Page 50

Sirius · 02-10-2010, 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by lymmranger

I think you are getting mixed up between the digital britain debacle and what we are discussing above, which is (in the main so far) "civil law" - or rather an "implied threat" of civil law.
The above "model" is relatively simple...
1/ plant and seed selected torrents
2/ observe and record all IP addressses connected
3/ go to court, apply for an NPO which forces ISP to hand over account holders details
4/ send very aggressive letters to account holder, threatening eternal damnation if "demanded" sum of money not paid
5/ repeat endlessly...

A very clever and simple money making scheme dressed up as "infringement"

I am sure I do not need to point out that with such a simple "plan" many many corners have been cut evidentially, but hey ho people pay up anyway..

...well maybe not for much longer

When you look at it, It's such a simple system they have to extract large amounts of money by legal blackmail. However what shocks me the most is that those that act as the governing body of these so called law firms don't want to do any thing about these conman giving them a bad name.

Ignitionnet · 02-10-2010, 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by lymmranger

I think you are getting mixed up between the digital britain debacle and what we are discussing above, which is (in the main so far) "civil law" - or rather an "implied threat" of civil law.
The above "model" is relatively simple...
1/ plant and seed selected torrents

Woah there - that's quite a big claim, any proof?

lymmranger · 02-10-2010, 11:03

@ "Ytrewq" - You are still confusing two completely different scenarios

Firstly ACS...

...the big difference is that ACS et al are doing this on mass, their evidence and grounds for the NPO are tenuous at best, they have been sucsessfully granted so far because no one has asked questions, the ISP`s have on mass taken their fees and turned over the requested info...
and most importantly of all - they do not care if you are guilty or not, they have your address and they WILL hound you for money. Their actions dop not really tally up with their message of "we are protecting our clients interests", in reality it is more like "money, money, money"

Secondly, Digital Britain...

...ignoring the fact that this was rushed and ill thought out, you are correct, it does indeed lay down a "recomended" proceedure for dealing with this area. Amongst other things an infringer is supposed to be repeatedly warned about their "activities" (3 times I think) only then should "legal action" be considered and again from what I understand an NPO will not be required to gain account holders info from the ISP. My knowledge of the precise mechanics of this new act is decidely shaky so please forgive any inaccuracies!!!!

Clearly this will NOT result in huge quantities of cash being generated

If you are interested in this area could I suggest you start at page 1 of this thread, there is also a 440 odd page thread over on slyck forums, etc

---------- Post added at 11:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Woah there - that's quite a big claim, any proof?

...plenty, do some googling!!!

Sirius · 02-10-2010, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Woah there - that's quite a big claim, any proof?

http://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-caught-...fake-torrents/

Ytrewq · 02-10-2010, 11:42

@lymmranger

Thanks for the info I'll take a look at the other thread. I didn't even know any of this was going on.

I did look into the digital britain thing and I seven somewhere that the isp will provide an anonymous list to any copyright owner who asks but they will still need a court order to have the names and addresses revealed.

I think that is right but I might be wrong. I suppose the difference in this situation is that while there is likely to be lots of letters educating users I would imagine that the court orders would only be for relatively small numbers and even then they might get one more chance.

It is a shame after seeing how these companies operate that the 3 strikes approach wasn't compulsory but then again that's not were the money is.

Sirius · 02-10-2010, 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ytrewq

@lymmranger

but then again that's not were the money is.

And those couple of words sums up what these so called lawyers are after. They need to supplement there no win no fee business. Anyone that thinks this is about redress for the rights owners is mistaken

lymmranger · 02-10-2010, 12:22

Thank you Sirius...

....you managed in a short sentence everything I have been rather badly explaining over my last few posts
Thanks for providing the link too - I was a bit nervous of doing that in case Kymmy shouted at me (winks at kymmy)

Sirius · 02-10-2010, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by lymmranger

Thank you Sirius...

....you managed in a short sentence everything I have been rather badly explaining over my last few posts
Thanks for providing the link too - I was a bit nervous of doing that in case Kymmy shouted at me (winks at kymmy)

You see its correct that the rights owners don't get ripped off and they should be paid for there work. However is it right to start chasing people for money in what is a type of legalised blackmail using dubious data collection systems that has and i may be wrong here never been fully challenged in a court of law ???.

We really do need an isp to go to court and get acs law and the rest of there ilk to produce there evidence to independent experts

lymmranger · 02-10-2010, 12:55

Agreed...

having seen all the pertinant "leaked" email traffic, the "evidence" will never get near a court, everyone speculated on the methodology behind it, (- remember the revelation that a certain Mr Tsang was on various forums looking for someone to custom write him some monitoring software)

according to some of ACS email traffic even they do not think much of it!!!

there is an old saying - "you cannot polish a t**d" - they (ACS) are attempting to gold plate it!!!

Sirius · 02-10-2010, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by lymmranger

there is an old saying - "you cannot polish a t**d" - they (ACS) are attempting to gold plate it!!!

To be honest my PERSONAL feelings on this are that the reason those in the know on this have been trying to get DPI involved is that they KNOW the evidence would not hold up in a real court. They need DPI to be able to go in front of a judge and win.

Tezcatlipoca · 02-10-2010, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kymmy

No ISP will give details without a court order and if they did then they are in breach of the DPA.. All of ACS's requests have been through a court order

Yup. Although as mentioned, they only seem to obtain these NPOs because they go unchallenged (other than by e.g. TalkTalk, who consequently gets left out of the NPO).

Rchivist · 03-10-2010, 21:42

Talking about DPI - here is one outfit (advertising that it uses DPI for this purpose) to look out for that has already been involved in the ACS story.
http://ng3sys.com/products.jsp
run by Alireza Torabi who has apparently provided harvested IP data to Andrew Crossley of ACS in the past.

There is a long and complicated story involving him, Andrew Crossley, Terence Tsang, and a variety of legal firms who are queuing up to get on the "speculative invoicing" gravy train while it is still on the rails (derailment due when Digital Economy Act provisions come in, if they do).

All out there now in the ACS email trail apparently.

Tomorrow is the key day to see what happens to the Gallant Macmillan NPO hearing before Chief Master Weingarten.
Will Plusnet be legally represented?
What will the judge say and do (the case has already been adjourned once, and PlusNet are rather late with their objections)?
When will Gallant Macmillan's website get back on line (disappeared about midday today having been slated for a DDOS attack by 4chan)?
When will the various civil actions start against the ISPs who definitely released unencrypted data to ACS, and against ACS who allegedly sent all sorts of details in emails including unencrypted credit card details linked to names, addresses and IP addresses?
What criminal DPA prosecutions will result?

Ytrewq · 03-10-2010, 21:58

Not sure why they would need dpi in their capacity as data harvester as they already monitor the files in question surely you would only need dpi if you weren't sure what the traffic was, like in the case of an isp like virgin.

Does that make sense?

**Maggy** · 04-10-2010, 08:20

Let's not get too far off topic people..Much as DPI and Phorm might be interesting, it's not what this thread is about..

lymmranger · 04-10-2010, 17:31

Todays breaking news is........

The NPO application heard today has been adjourned until Jan 2011

poor Ministry of Sound....

so no nasty letters on your behalf then you will just have to rely on actually selling your work!

Ahhh! I forgot something seems to have happened to your website

...whats plan C then????????????????