Newport Cleppa Park

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Neil

At the end of the day, a pension contribution is no more than a benefit/perk that the company pays outside of your normal 'wage', & if that payment wasn't getting carried across into Fujitsu because of poor documentation, would that make it any different? (Not in my eyes)

Quite true, it is a benefit/perk, and most companies offer it (at least decent ones ). However, some specific perks offered by companies during transfer will be lost, because they are specific to the previous company.

It's like being offered free beer when working for a Pub, that changes to an alcohol free Restaurant, the Pension is a standard perk, the beer would be dropped in favour of something new. It's quite possible that Fujitsu have a range of similar "own brand" perks that will be offered to the new employees.

It is unreasonable for NTL to continue to supply and pay for a perk for someone who is no longer an employee, the same can be said for any company.


EDIT: Just a note .... Perks are offered, including pensions, but the employee doesn't have to take any of them ... it's a personal choice. The contract of Employment is signed by both parties and is lwafully binding.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Quite true, it is a benefit/perk, and most companies offer it (at least decent ones ). However, some specific perks offered by companies during transfer will be lost, because they are specific to the previous company.

It's like being offered free beer when working for a Pub, that changes to an alcohol free Restaurant, the Pension is a standard perk, the beer would be dropped in favour of something new. It's quite possible that Fujitsu have a range of similar "own brand" perks that will be offered to the new employees.

It is unreasonable for NTL to continue to supply and pay for a perk for someone who is no longer an employee, the same can be said for any company.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Quite true, it is a benefit/perk, and most companies offer it (at least decent ones ). However, some specific perks offered by companies during transfer will be lost, because they are specific to the previous company.

Am I the only one who can see my point here?

They wouldn't be 'lost' if ntl had documented them properly-fact.

It's like being offered free beer when working for a Pub, that changes to an alcohol free Restaurant, the Pension is a standard perk, the beer would be dropped in favour of something new. It's quite possible that Fujitsu have a range of similar "own brand" perks that will be offered to the new employees.

Not if the original employer (Pub) had documented it properly.

It is unreasonable for NTL to continue to supply and pay for a perk for someone who is no longer an employee, the same can be said for any company.[/b]

Jeez-ntl wouldn't have to pay for it. Fujitsu would have to pick up the cost, so that the staff member still had the same benefits as he/she did prior to TUPE.

EDIT: Just a note .... Perks are offered, including pensions, but the employee doesn't have to take any of them ... it's a personal choice. The contract of Employment is signed by both parties and is lwafully binding.

Do any ntl employees have a copy of their contract to hand? Does it mention the 'associate package'?

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Neil

Am I the only one who can see my point here?

They wouldn't be 'lost' if ntl had documented them properly-fact.

Neil, ntl didn't fail to do anything properly. No-one else can see your point because you're the only one who believes it.....

The associate deal is a perk whilst you work for ntl. Don't work for ntl? Don't get the perk. Why can't you accept that?

[Stuartbe]

I can see what Neil is saying... If the perk or package (whatever you want to call it) had been written into the job description or contract then the new company would have to honor it....

I think that Neil is feeling apathy for the staff who are now going to have to shell out extra dosh that they would not have to if NLT had written it into the contract.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by stuartbe

I can see what Neil is saying... If the perk or package (whatever you want to call it) had been written into the job description or contract then the new company would have to honor it....

I think that Neil is feeling apathy for the staff who are now going to have to shell out extra dosh that they may not have had to.

I feel sorry for them too Stuart, absolutely. But Neil appears hellbent on slating ntl for something bad that they actually haven't done......

It's not in the job description or your contract.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by stuartbe

I can see what Neil is saying... If the perk or package (whatever you want to call it) had been written into the job description or contract then the new company would have to honor it....

I think that Neil is feeling apathy for the staff who are now going to have to shell out extra dosh that they would not have to if NLT had written it into the contract.

Hallelulah!

Thank you Stu-that is exactly the point that I have been making.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Neil

Hallelulah!

Thank you Stu-that is exactly the point that I have been making.

What, that you feel sorry for them????

[Neil]

Originally Posted by orangebird

What, that you feel sorry for them????

YES

Jesus H Chr1st-how hard can it really be to understand?

In my view ntl have caused these employees who are transferring to Fujitsu to be out of pocket-& that is exactly what TUPE is there to protect, but it can't protect what ntl has not documented.

*Sigh*

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Neil

YES

Jesus H Chr1st-how hard can it really be to understand?

In my view ntl have caused these employees who are transferring to Fujitsu to be out of pocket-& that is exactly what TUPE is there to protect, but it can't protect what ntl has not documented.

*Sigh*

Neil, the way you're behaving recently, I wouldn't be surprised if you secretly blamed ntl for 9/11, the plague and the Apollo 13's failed mission.

ntl did not forsee outsourcing depts, so how could they write that kind of clause in in the first place? How can ntl write a clause stating that any company that may in the future take over operations on an outsource basis should provide the associates with the same perks as ntl provide?? Especially without the companies that they're being outsourced to agreeing (because ntl didn't know at the time)???? Impossible to protect what you can't forsee Neil, I think you're being entirely unreasonable..

You want a crusade that's worth while, how about you lobby Fujitsu to provide all the associates in question with digi tv....

[Neil]

Originally Posted by orangebird

Neil, the way you're behaving recently, I wouldn't be surprised if you secretly blamed ntl for 9/11, the plague and the Apollo 13's failed mission.

ntl did not forsee outsourcing depts, so how could they write that kind of clause in in the first place? How can ntl write a clause stating that any company that may in the future take over operations on an outsource basis should provide the associates with the same perks as ntl provide?? Especially without the companies that they're being outsourced to agreeing (because ntl didn't know at the time)???? Impossible to protect what you can't forsee Neil, I think you're being entirely unreasonable..

You want a crusade that's worth while, how about you lobby Fujitsu to provide all the associates in question with digi tv....

You are totally missing the point in your mission to vindicate ntl (for a change )

I will say it again.......

If ntl had documented it properly in the first place (nothing to do with seeing into the future, it's about doint things properly), then the associates who are transferring to Fujitsu would not be losing their free TV/phone.

It really is very simple-the reason that the TUPE folks will lose out is because of ntl's inability to document their staff's benefits in a proper fashion.

Comprendez?

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Neil

You are totally missing the point in your mission to vindicate ntl (for a change )

I will say it again.......

If ntl had documented it properly in the first place (nothing to do with seeing into the future, it's about doint things properly), then the associates who are transferring to Fujitsu would not be losing their free TV/phone.

It really is very simple-the reason that the TUPE folks will lose out is because of ntl's inability to document their staff's benefits in a proper fashion.

ok Pleeeeeaaaaasssseeee stop the personal vendettas ...

I understand what you are saying Neil, BUT I cannot honestly believe that ANY company out there will actually build the Perks into a binding contract. I've worked for many organisations, both big and small, the benefits etc are extras on top of the contract that can be withdrawn and changed at any time at the companies discretion. The contract can't. It would be shortsighted and unworkable for the benefits to be built in as part of the contract, from the point of view of the employer.

This isn't an NTL thing, and although I feel for the NTL staff, this happens everywhere .... it's not NTL specific.

Can you honestly tell me that the "free Gym membership" you get in some companies will automatically be transferred to a new owner in times of trouble. I doubt it, the Job is the most important thing.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Neil

You are totally missing the point in your mission to vindicate ntl (for a change )

I will say it again.......

If ntl had documented it properly in the first place (nothing to do with seeing into the future, it's about doint things properly), then the associates who are transferring to Fujitsu would not be losing their free TV/phone.

It really is very simple-the reason that the TUPE folks will lose out is because of ntl's inability to document their staff's benefits in a proper fashion.

Comprendez?

ntl did do it properly Neil. Why can't you accept that? The reason the TUPE folk will lose out is because they don't work for ntl anymore!!!!

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

ok Pleeeeeaaaaasssseeee stop the personal vendettas ...

I understand what you are saying Neil, BUT I cannot honestly believe that ANY company out there will actually build the Perks into a binding contract. I've worked for many organisations, both big and small, the benefits etc are extras on top of the contract that can be withdrawn and changed at any time at the companies discretion. The contract can't. It would be shortsighted and unworkable for the benefits to be built in as part of the contract, from the point of view of the employer.

This isn't an NTL thing, and although I feel for the NTL staff, this happens everywhere .... it's not NTL specific.

Can you honestly tell me that the "free Gym membership" you get in some companies will automatically be transferred to a new owner in times of trouble. I doubt it, the Job is the most important thing.

[poolking]

Originally Posted by orangebird

ntl did do it properly Neil. Why can't you accept that? The reason the TUPE folk will lose out is because they don't work for ntl anymore!!!!

Wow I can read that font!!