Israel v Iran conflict

[noel43]

Originally Posted by Paul

"We" ?

I though he said the USA was not involved ...

Then he can say I was on the winning side

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Trump just re-posted this from Mike Huckabee, the US Ambassador to Israel



fyi, Mike Huckabee is an Evangelical who believes that Israel is central to triggering the rise of the Antichrist, the rapture, the return of Christ, the battle of Armageddon - on a side note, Truman in 1945 authorised the dropping of Atomic bombs on Japan...

Huckabee is an exGovernor, presidential candidate and has been a republican political figure for many years. I presume you have quotes from him where he says that he believes that Israel is central to triggering the rise of the Antichrist, the rapture, the return of Christ, the battle of Armageddon.

I would like to see them.

Originally Posted by noel43

Then he can say I was on the winning side

Might as well agree with you while I can …

Trump didn’t want this; a great chunk of his MAGA base supports him because he promised to disentangle America from overseas wars. But something he hates even more is someone else looking like a winner, because in his tiny little zero-sum brain that makes him the loser. So if there’s a sniff of the great geopolitical threat of the age being brought to its knees, it has to look like it was Trump wot did it.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Huckabee is an exGovernor, presidential candidate and has been a republican political figure for many years. I presume you have quotes from him where he says that he believes that Israel is central to triggering the rise of the Antichrist, the rapture, the return of Christ, the battle of Armageddon.

I would like to see them.

As to whether or not Huckabee believes in the End Times (which encompass all of your points above), enjoy one of his shows where he says he thinks we may just be living in them…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1wr0StT-_eQ

[Dude111]

Originally Posted by Paul

"We" ?

I though he said the USA was not involved ...

This country thinks they own the world Paul. They think they can treat anyoje like crap and nothing can be done.......

Truly disgusting.........

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Dude111

This country thinks they own the world Paul. They think they can treat anyoje like crap and nothing can be done.......

Truly disgusting.........

Meanwhile, Israel is defending itself against Iran's nuclear ambitions as identified by the IAEA.

But, addressing Dude's point directly: I suppose you could regard Trump and Netanyahu as being in the same mould. Also, their respective electorates are sharply divided down the middle. But that should not detract from Israel's need to defend itself from Iran, which is committed to Israel's destruction.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

As to whether or not Huckabee believes in the End Times (which encompass all of your points above)

So you have no quotes to back up your statement about him.

granted he is a Christian, I'm sure many Christians on this site believe in the end times

I was more focused on this:

who believes that Israel is central to triggering the rise of the Antichrist

I'd be grateful if you could expand on that.

enjoy one of his shows where he says he thinks we may just be living in them…


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1wr0StT-_eQ

Did you watch it?

He doesn't really say anything, the pastor and author of a book about the end times does.

American Christian fundamentalism has been obsessed with Millinarianism in one way or another since the latter half of the 19th century. It has given rise to some of the most well known sects that have survived to this day (Mormons, JWs, Adventists) as well as many more that didn’t, but it also has a home in mainstream (i.e. creedally orthodox) charismatic Christianity.

Interest in the end times was turbo-charged in the mid 20th century with the world seeming to be on a nuclear knife-edge. A 1960s book called The Late Great Planet Earth set out the modern form of the end times beliefs Huckabee seems to be espousing here. The same basic set of predictions about the end times are also contained in a novel series called Left Behind (the first of which was badly adapted into an airport disaster movie starring Nicholas Cage some years ago).

This is by no means the only way of understanding the Bible’s Book of Revelation, and it was not the way the church understood it at all until it took root in the USA, which has used its cultural reach to spread it far and wide. But it is now widespread and so while it may sound a bit batty to unchurched ears, especially on the lips of someone so close to the president, it really is not all that surprising when understood in context.

Yes, I watched it…

Huckabee says "some of us think we may just be living in them (End Times)" - that’s saying something…

Re your other point, Huckabee is a Evangelical Christian Zionist (as is Hesgeth), out of the Southern Baptist Church - all big fans of dispensational premillennialism…

What do you think Huckabee meant when he referenced Truman and 1945?

[Sephiroth]

Huckabee and his ilk have more than one screw loose. Carrying out foreign policy with that crap in mind is dangerous isn't much distant from the more extreme Islamists. IMO.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Huckabee says "some of us think we may just be living in them (End Times)" - that’s saying something…

I just saw that as an intro for the author to talk about his book

What do you think Huckabee meant when he referenced Truman and 1945?

I take your point, but I don't see the US nuking anyone, I don't see the US getting too involved. Trump is not a war president. Best thing they can do is continue to supply Israel.

[downquark1]

Trump is very close with Israel and is currently bickering with his anti-war base so it looks like a betrayal may be on the cards.

Originally Posted by Pierre

I just saw that as an intro for the author to talk about his book




I take your point, but I don't see the US nuking anyone, I don't see the US getting too involved. Trump is not a war president. Best thing they can do is continue to supply Israel.

I can understand why you could interpret it that way, but if that is what Huckabee meant, one would have thought he would say "some think we may just be living in them" rather than the inclusive "some of us".

[downquark1]

It looks like the exiled son of the last Shah (King/Tzar/Ceasar) is supporting the US and Israel. This is interesting because the US dropped support to his father partly because he started complaining about Israel.

A 50 year drama is playing out.

[Sephiroth]

There's a rather interesting description of the Israel/Iran relationship at:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7249/mg1143osd.7?seq=6

A selected quote:

Iran’s cooperation with Israel was not based on common fears
alone. The Shah had a rather exaggerated notion of Israeli influence in
Washington and believed that Israel could help him win the favor of
the Kennedy administration, which had been critical of his rule. 8 Iran’s
expectation of drawing itself closer to the United States through Israel
had an important role in its decision to expand ties with Israel. 9 By the
mid-1960s, the Shah had permitted a permanent Israeli delegation to
Iran that constituted a de facto embassy in Tehran. However, he did
not grant Israel more than de facto recognition, 10 and his public statements on Israel only grew more critical after the 1967 war.11 Though
Iranian popular disapproval of Israel surged, the Shah continued to
deepen relations with the Jewish state after he witnessed Israel’s victory
over the Egyptian, Syrian, and Jordanian armies. He believed that Isra-
el’s rising status would strengthen Iran’s position as a major regional
power as well.

... and ...

Israeli-Iranian Cooperation After the 1979 Revolution
Iran’s post-revolution foreign policy was at first overzealous and ideo-
logical. The revolutionaries saw the Shah’s overthrow not as a final goal
in itself but as a first step toward “liberating” the wider Middle East
from U.S. domination. The Persian Gulf’s Arab regimes, backed by
the United States, were the next stop for the Islamic revolution. The Islamic Republic focused its efforts on stirring up Shi’a populations
in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq. However, Iran’s efforts to over-
throw the old order were largely ineffective and in many ways counter-
productive. Faced with the threat of a revolutionary Iran, the Persian
Gulf states formed the Gulf Cooperation Council in 1981 and aided
Saddam Hussein’s military conflict with Iran.
However, much like the Shah, the Islamic Republic realized the
value of an Israeli counterweight to its Arab neighbors, particularly
Iraq. Saddam’s war against Iran became a major incentive for Iranian-
Israeli cooperation. A low-level relationship between Iran and Israel
helped the regime avoid total isolation while it benefitted from desper-
ately needed Israeli (and U.S.) weapons. Israel itself had a vested inter-
est in Iraq’s defeat, as it viewed Saddam Hussein as a central threat to
its security.