General Election

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Russ

Yeah I said it. I’ve also previously made it clear I’m anti-Tory.

What’s your point?

https://makeagif.com/gif/chris-rock-...said-it-4MYbBo

Originally Posted by Russ

It has to be the right set-up to undo the horrific corruption and damage caused by Cameron, May, Truss the economy killer , Boris the king bullshitter and Sunak.

The first four, yes, but what damage has Sunak done ? He's spent most of his time trying to undo the damage of the previous four.

Originally Posted by Paul

The first four, yes, but what damage has Sunak done ? He's spent most of his time trying to undo the damage of the previous four.

He was the Chancellor for two and a half years under Johnson - he’s complicit/liable for the damage caused then.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Paul

The first four, yes, but what damage has Sunak done ? He's spent most of his time trying to undo the damage of the previous four.

He's holding back UK science and thereby the future prosperity of the UK by preventing it from joining Horizon.
https://theconversation.com/horizon-...esearch-209279

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Paul

The first four, yes, but what damage has Sunak done ? He's spent most of his time trying to undo the damage of the previous four.

The damage he played a massive part in creating, just because the bar is set so incredibly low with human hand granade truss and bozo doesn't mean the prime miniature isn't up to his neck in it

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

He's holding back UK science and thereby the future prosperity of the UK by preventing it from joining Horizon.
https://theconversation.com/horizon-...esearch-209279

I could find no reference to Sunak in that article.

I did find this, which mainly suggests we are close to rejoining ;
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/u...amme-fdxfj2znn

The article does however tell you its not perfect.

Horizon Europe isn’t perfect. High levels of oversubscription, accompanying low success rates and inconsistent feedback have been a worry for some time. Research proposals that achieve an international level of excellence are routinely rejected.

I think "holding back UK science and thereby the future prosperity of the UK" is being a little over dramatic.

---------- Post added at 15:13 ---------- Previous post was at 15:10 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

He was the Chancellor for two and a half years under Johnson - he’s complicit/liable for the damage caused then.

True, but he wasnt in charge then. That list was clearly intended as a list of "damaging" PM's. What "damage" has he done as PM ?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Paul

So, the only reference I could find was the caption under the picture.

So are you suggesting we just waste money now, regardless ?

Even the article tells you its not perfect.

I think "holding back UK science and thereby the future prosperity of the UK" is being a little over dramatic.

Just because Sunak says something does not mean that we should regard his words as the truth. He's a politician.

There's certainly a link between UK science and prosperity and Horizon is the best scheme available for UK researchers. Not participating will hold us back in the long term.

Understandably for him, I don't think Sunak's thinking about the long term as he's unlikely to be PM after the next election and may even not be residing in the UK then.

In weighing up Horizon, I think the full paragraph which you quoted an excerpt from provides a good summary:

Horizon Europe isn’t perfect. High levels of oversubscription, accompanying low success rates and inconsistent feedback have been a worry for some time. Research proposals that achieve an international level of excellence are routinely rejected. But the reality is that Horizon Europe is the largest and most successful research framework programme available to UK researchers.

[Ms NTL]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

He's holding back UK science and thereby the future prosperity of the UK by preventing it from joining Horizon.
https://theconversation.com/horizon-...esearch-209279

Bojo promised to pay the ERASMUS expenses when we pulled out of EU. He never did. We wrote to him umpteen times. As a result my research grant had 6K unpaid. Others considerably more.

Bojo promised TURING to replace ERASMUS+ (" a global research network"), It never happened. (Unrelated to the Turing institute in London)

HORIZON the same, nothing happened, the years are passing and science is not static. Several of us got a second job in a EU Institute in order to participate in HORIZON.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

There's certainly a link between UK science and prosperity

Your opinion ? or you have facts or evidence for this ?

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Not participating will hold us back in the long term.

This is just speculation, I (or anyone) could just as easily say it wont.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Paul

Your opinion ? or you have facts or evidence for this ?

I'm sure everyone can see a link between science and prosperity.

The UK HSA says:

Science also drives innovation making an important contribution to our nation’s prosperity.

https://ukhsa.blog.gov.uk/2023/03/10...nd-prosperity/

Originally Posted by Paul

This is just speculation, I (or anyone) could just as easily say it wont.

Anyone can say anything but that doesn't make them right. The facts speak for themselves here. This is is the largest and richest funding programme for scientific research in the world with nations like Japan and New Zealand keen to join. By not participating, the UK's impact in scientific research for the future is reduced.

As the article explains

Collaboration across borders is absolutely crucial for generating world class research. Truly outstanding research tends to be done by people working internationally. Multiple perspectives, complementary expertise and diverse approaches to problem solving are all vital ingredients in research. It’s what needed for it to be capable of providing solutions to the complex and interdisciplinary challenges faced by populations across the world.

These challenges include climate change, food and nutrition, infectious diseases, sustainable agriculture, the healthcare needs of ageing populations, water security, energy efficiency, initiatives to reduce carbon emissions and of course artificial intelligence (AI).

But these challenges don’t begin and end at national borders, so it is vital to build and deliver international responses, achieving greater scale and impact. Countries should be enabled to achieve far more collectively compared to purely national efforts.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I'm sure everyone can see a link between science and prosperity.

So, opinion then.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Anyone can say anything but that doesn't make them right.

Case rested.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Paul

So, opinion then.

Almost. Except I then provide a gov.uk link to reinforce my point.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I'm sure everyone can see a link between science and prosperity.

I don’t doubt there is, but we don’t need to be part of an EU program to realise that.

Anyone can say anything but that doesn't make them right.

I’m adding that to my library of quotes, that I am entitled to throw back at anyone on this forum at any time I feel like.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I don’t doubt there is, but we don’t need to be part of an EU program to realise that.

You need to be part of something international and we're not. Horizon is the best gig in town. Countries like Japan are queuing up to join it. Why not us? Short-term Sunak is why not.

[Ms NTL]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I don’t doubt there is, but we don’t need to be part of an EU program to realise that.

you can't be serious. The scientists of 27 countries are all crap, because they are European?