Motability

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Kursk

A more stringent system will possibly temporarily inconvenience some genuine claimants but this is what it will take to nail the thieves. Why should we put up with these people? It isn't ideal I know but better for the longer term health of the system and the awards that can be made to those in real need.

That paragraph alone shows just how ignorant you are.

[denphone]

The criteria for getting DLA and PIP has become much more stringent in these last few years as first of all you have to fill in a 35 page form which would even test Albert Einstein and after that there is usually a very tough assessment by Capita or Atos who then send their report to the DWP before a decision is then made by DWP decision makers on whether someone qualifies for disability benefits and the mobility part of it which has been tightened up considerably.

[techguyone]

Luckily I can't see his posts now - but I agree with Peanut, clearly he's got no clue.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by techguyone

Luckily I can't see his posts now - but I agree with Peanut, clearly he's got no clue.

Maybe due to what he regards as his "source of truth"?

[techguyone]

No. I don't believe so, he's very obviously got a massive hard on with Motability for some reason, despite there being bigger/easier target to go for, Motability is his thing, maybe some bad experience or something, it's an overreaction for what is a very small subset of benefits.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by peanut

I don't see what fraudsters have anything to do with hitting the genuine claimants. Other than sending out the usual propaganda that all claimants are faking so making any cuts to disability will be welcomed and accepted by the gullible mail readers etc.

Of course there are those that was put on IB and DLA in the past do need reassessing but now it is a cost cutting exercise from the start, where the genuine are no longer genuine because the tests are so flawed that people are being healed of their disability or illnesses within 45 minutes of seeing an assessor. But that seems perfectly acceptable as nothing is being done about it.

If you can pick up a coin, sit, stand, talk, walk 20 metres and put your hand in your top pocket, then regardless of whatever disability or illness you are deemed fit for work. And you wonder why people give up hope.

There's only so much in the pot to go round, people dipping into that shouldn't mean there's less to go round, sure it might not mean genuine claimants would get more but it'd mean they wouldn't get less. Abuse of invalidity was at absurd levels and I'm glad they cracked down hard on it, they've gone far to far with it though and I wonder why the alcoholics and drug addicts have yet to feel their wrath yet.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by peanut

That paragraph alone shows just how ignorant you are.

Then enlighten me. Or would you prefer to hide behind an uninformative comment?

Originally Posted by denphone

The criteria for getting DLA and PIP has become much more stringent in these last few years as first of all you have to fill in a 35 page form which would even test Albert Einstein and after that there is usually a very tough assessment by Capita or Atos who then send their report to the DWP before a decision is then made by DWP decision makers on whether someone qualifies for disability benefits and the mobility part of it which has been tightened up considerably.

Yes, I am aware of that. Bearing in mind that the swindled £70m which has been referenced in this thread relates to 2014-2015 it might be we'll see an improvement in later Government figues. Good.

Originally Posted by techguyone

Luckily I can't see his posts now - but I agree with Peanut, clearly he's got no clue.

Originally Posted by ianch99

Maybe due to what he regards as his "source of truth"?

Your third post and once again nothing about the subject matter just a dig at the DM. I am not a mod but here's a message from someone who is:

Originally Posted by Stephen

Also stick to the topic please.

Originally Posted by techguyone

No. I don't believe so, he's very obviously got a massive hard on with Motability for some reason, despite there being bigger/easier target to go for, Motability is his thing, maybe some bad experience or something, it's an overreaction for what is a very small subset of benefits.

So this is just a rant then based on lousy media reporting and casual observation you don't care enough to actually investigate the real situation for yourself and gain a better understanding of the reality. That's why you have attracted hostility and that hostility is growing as claimants are getting fed up of witch-hunts that never hit the intended target but seem to have unnerving accuracy in hitting genuine claimants. Right now the wait for a tribunal hearing is between 18-24 months and the backlog is growing due to the numbers being deemed fit to work who clearly are not, the assessment is a ridiculously rigged affair criticised by everyone except the dwp.

As said able to walk 20 metres your fit because time taken to do it, manner in which you do it and if your in pain after doing it are not factors considered by the assessment just that you can do it. How many people are fortunate to be within 20 metres of an employment opportunity, I live across the road from a school and that is 35 metres away and pathetic as it sounds I'd be in pain getting there but hey I'm fit by assessment standards.

I used to be appreciative of my benefits and was happy while I worked to pay my contributions so that we had such a system though back then I never thought I'd be needing it anytime soon, now I'm not appreciative like a growing number I'm angry and fed up at constantly being made to feel bad because I receive benefits. Most genuine claimants are like me they don't need the media, politicians and lazy members of the public making us feel like wasters because that's one of the things we feel like all the time because we can't contribute we are worth less.

Get to know some claimants do some half decent research on the reality of things as they are now and then come back criticising the system that's if unlike many of us after you have done some research and gain an understanding your not venting at the politicians who have consistently abused the system more then any claimant ever could and are responsible for the state of it. Our biggest problem in the welfare state is as with many others politicians looking for quick easy fixes that have to be paid for later and all colours of politician have done it just happens at the minute that it's the blues making a complete pigs ear of the job.

[techguyone]

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

So this is just a rant then based on lousy media reporting and casual observation you don't care enough to actually investigate the real situation for yourself and gain a better understanding of the reality. That's why you have attracted hostility and that hostility is growing as claimants are getting fed up of witch-hunts that never hit the intended target but seem to have unnerving accuracy in hitting genuine claimants. Right now the wait for a tribunal hearing is between 18-24 months and the backlog is growing due to the numbers being deemed fit to work who clearly are not, the assessment is a ridiculously rigged affair criticised by everyone except the dwp.

As said able to walk 20 metres your fit because time taken to do it, manner in which you do it and if your in pain after doing it are not factors considered by the assessment just that you can do it. How many people are fortunate to be within 20 metres of an employment opportunity, I live across the road from a school and that is 35 metres away and pathetic as it sounds I'd be in pain getting there but hey I'm fit by assessment standards.

I used to be appreciative of my benefits and was happy while I worked to pay my contributions so that we had such a system though back then I never thought I'd be needing it anytime soon, now I'm not appreciative like a growing number I'm angry and fed up at constantly being made to feel bad because I receive benefits. Most genuine claimants are like me they don't need the media, politicians and lazy members of the public making us feel like wasters because that's one of the things we feel like all the time because we can't contribute we are worth less.

Get to know some claimants do some half decent research on the reality of things as they are now and then come back criticising the system that's if unlike many of us after you have done some research and gain an understanding your not venting at the politicians who have consistently abused the system more then any claimant ever could and are responsible for the state of it. Our biggest problem in the welfare state is as with many others politicians looking for quick easy fixes that have to be paid for later and all colours of politician have done it just happens at the minute that it's the blues making a complete pigs ear of the job.

It's a bit rich describing this thread as a rant and then proceeding to deliver a rant of your own.

I have always thought that a forum is a good way to acquire information where it is possible to seek and discuss issues with those directly affected; one would think that a forum with a number of beneficiaries might be a good place to start. But it seems not, several contributors have wet themselves in angst. How anyone could have the temerity to ask questions about Motability; really, the cheek of it all.
And you miss the salient point. The thread is about those who knowingly fiddle the system not about the experiences of genuine claimants.

Not a rant an example of where your thinking leads and despite what you believe it leads to more misery for genuine claimants then money recovered from fraud you have zero understanding of the issue your complaining about. You keep saying what a problem this is and yet have clearly gone puddle deep looking into the issue taking the easy moral high ground so many take, if you bothered to actually dig a little you would realise how complicated and multi layered the issue is and why what your asking just isn't practically possible.

You have had people trying to explain the situation to you and because it doesn't fit for you your ignoring it responding in a way you know will increase hostility and then putting silly responses. You started a thread on something you know nothing about, criticising something you neither know about or have any proposals to solve the issue and then seem surprised when your not met with warmth and debate. You might be the latest on here but people saying the same things as you have been repeating it ad nauseum for the last decade and have managed to be very loud and vocal got the politicians to knee jerk react and then go on their merry way.

Those of us on benefits have no choice we get to suffer every time some media rag or uninformed person decides to wade in temporarily of course and stir the pot and we are served by politicians too lazy to actually do anything positive so they alter the assessment criteria declare job done and leave everyone in a bigger mess then before. This was an occasional casual observation that got you all worked up try living it with it everyday for years and then see how welcoming you are. Your getting insight here you just don't like it because it's not what you thought you would get and you've come across as another welfare basher as usual giving and offering nothing on the issue.

[techguyone]

The word you are looking for is a short one, but quite apt.

:Troll:

Someone who starts threads with the express purpose of peeing people off no matter what.

Solution: Don't feed or mute (like I did)

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

So this is just a rant then based on lousy media reporting and casual observation you don't care enough to actually investigate the real situation for yourself and gain a better understanding of the reality. That's why you have attracted hostility and that hostility is growing as claimants are getting fed up of witch-hunts that never hit the intended target but seem to have unnerving accuracy in hitting genuine claimants. Right now the wait for a tribunal hearing is between 18-24 months and the backlog is growing due to the numbers being deemed fit to work who clearly are not, the assessment is a ridiculously rigged affair criticised by everyone except the dwp.

As said able to walk 20 metres your fit because time taken to do it, manner in which you do it and if your in pain after doing it are not factors considered by the assessment just that you can do it. How many people are fortunate to be within 20 metres of an employment opportunity, I live across the road from a school and that is 35 metres away and pathetic as it sounds I'd be in pain getting there but hey I'm fit by assessment standards.

I used to be appreciative of my benefits and was happy while I worked to pay my contributions so that we had such a system though back then I never thought I'd be needing it anytime soon, now I'm not appreciative like a growing number I'm angry and fed up at constantly being made to feel bad because I receive benefits. Most genuine claimants are like me they don't need the media, politicians and lazy members of the public making us feel like wasters because that's one of the things we feel like all the time because we can't contribute we are worth less.

Get to know some claimants do some half decent research on the reality of things as they are now and then come back criticising the system that's if unlike many of us after you have done some research and gain an understanding your not venting at the politicians who have consistently abused the system more then any claimant ever could and are responsible for the state of it. Our biggest problem in the welfare state is as with many others politicians looking for quick easy fixes that have to be paid for later and all colours of politician have done it just happens at the minute that it's the blues making a complete pigs ear of the job.

Thank you for saying this. This is the sort of perspective that you would not see in the Daily Mail. If the OP had cited a reputable, authoritive news source and this would have possibly been a different discussion.

He chose his source deliberately as he seems to have an axe to grind and that is to make sure that the vast majority of deserving benefit claimants suffer due to emotive reporting of the minority who abuse the system.

Of course, the sums involved here are pathetic when compared to those involved in the tax avoidance scams, the monies made by big business at the public's expense, etc.

He does not rail against these sections of this society, only against the areas that his media sources are directing him to hate ..

You have got your priorities wrong mate ..

---------- Post added at 23:06 ---------- Previous post was at 23:05 ----------

Originally Posted by Kursk

I am not a mod but here's a message from someone who is

So don't pretend to be one then ..

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Not a rant an example of where your thinking leads and despite what you believe it leads to more misery for genuine claimants then money recovered from fraud you have zero understanding of the issue your complaining about. You keep saying what a problem this is and yet have clearly gone puddle deep looking into the issue taking the easy moral high ground so many take, if you bothered to actually dig a little you would realise how complicated and multi layered the issue is and why what your asking just isn't practically possible.

You have had people trying to explain the situation to you and because it doesn't fit for you your ignoring it responding in a way you know will increase hostility and then putting silly responses. You started a thread on something you know nothing about, criticising something you neither know about or have any proposals to solve the issue and then seem surprised when your not met with warmth and debate. You might be the latest on here but people saying the same things as you have been repeating it ad nauseum for the last decade and have managed to be very loud and vocal got the politicians to knee jerk react and then go on their merry way.

Those of us on benefits have no choice we get to suffer every time some media rag or uninformed person decides to wade in temporarily of course and stir the pot and we are served by politicians too lazy to actually do anything positive so they alter the assessment criteria declare job done and leave everyone in a bigger mess then before. This was an occasional casual observation that got you all worked up try living it with it everyday for years and then see how welcoming you are. Your getting insight here you just don't like it because it's not what you thought you would get and you've come across as another welfare basher as usual giving and offering nothing on the issue.

Feel better now?

Ok, for my benefit (no pun intended) let's focus on the plain, irrefutable and simple facts. It should keep things less emotive.

Fact 1 - The discussion is about Motability benefit fraud (and therefore not about you necessarily);

Fact 2 - You know everything about the system and I know nothing (this must be a fact as you repeat it ad nauseam);

Fact 3 - In a document entitled "Fraud and Error in the Benefit System: 2014/15 biannual National Statistics, Great Britain"
linked earlier in the thread the Department of Work and Pensions recorded that £70m was defrauded from the Motability scheme;

Fact 4 - Seventy million pounds is a lot of money to me but not a lot of money to you;

Fact 5 - There is room to improve the efficiency of the Motability Scheme.

Fact 6 - You are up in arms because that's always the best way to react if someone dares to mention a benefits scheme regardless of Fact 1.

Actually, that's the long and the short of it as far as I am concerned. Did I get the facts right?

Originally Posted by techguyone

The word you are looking for is a short one, but quite apt.

:Troll:

Someone who starts threads with the express purpose of peeing people off no matter what.

Solution: Don't feed or mute (like I did)

Originally Posted by ianch99

Thank you for saying this. This is the sort of perspective that you would not see in the Daily Mail. If the OP had cited a reputable, authoritive news source and this would have possibly been a different discussion.

He chose his source deliberately as he seems to have an axe to grind and that is to make sure that the vast majority of deserving benefit claimants suffer due to emotive reporting of the minority who abuse the system.

Of course, the sums involved here are pathetic when compared to those involved in the tax avoidance scams, the monies made by big business at the public's expense, etc.

He does not rail against these sections of this society, only against the areas that his media sources are directing him to hate ..

You have got your priorities wrong mate ..

---------- Post added at 23:06 ---------- Previous post was at 23:05 ----------



So don't pretend to be one then ..

I have no axe to grind. A discussion about Motability swindlers is perfectly legitimate.

You have quoted me as saying "I am not a mod" and commented "So don't pretend to be one then". English comprehension is not your strong point is it?

[pip08456]

Having followed this thread from the start I think none of you (Iincluding the OP) have read the article fully as nonr of you have mentioned that "Motability terminates more than 60,000 car leases each year, 15,000 because of death, 12,000 because of changing health and 5,500 due to allowances being withdrawn by the Department for Work and Pensions, which provides mobility benefit."

And

But a significant number were terminated because of misuse. In the financial year to the end of March 2016, Motability dealt with 13,672 allegations relating to misuse of the scheme. Enforcement action was taken in 5,299 cases, including 2,100 customers who had their cars withdrawn. In addition to the 2,100 withdrawals, 824 more will not be allowed to take out a new lease when their term expires — this is, in effect, delayed confiscation and it's a signifiant number.

"Few, though, would argue against Motability having a place in the welfare system. It is policing the scheme that's the problem."

I think the above quotes from the article should put the OP's mind at rest as action is being taken. I will admit that the new tests are extreme and don't serve the genuine disabled as they should.

The rant about the DM by the responders on here does seem OTT to me.

I say this as a recipient of Mobility Allowance ( as it was) in the mid 80's - mid 90's following a serious RTA. Once I was able to return to work I informed them and surrendered it.