Harman's Labour 'rebellion'

What he said...

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Good. If it takes Labour tearing itself to pieces and being reborn to get effective opposition in place so be it.

Other than those with serious persecution complexes relating to Labour I doubt that anyone is happy with the current situation.

Effective government needs effective opposition.

Agreed.

I think that the reason Corbyn is doing so well in the leadership contest is that he is the only candidate I've seen that is not spouting the same Tory-Lite stuff that Tony Blair introduced, and Gordon Brown and Ed Milliband just blindly followed.

I think a lot of the Labour membership realise that that is not going to work with the electorate, as the Tories have done a good job of blaming the previous administration for the state of the economy.

Regardless of the party on power, I believe you are right. Our system of government works best if there is an effective opposition. Unfortunately, in their current state, neither the Liberal Democrats nor Labour are offering this.

[Osem]

If Corbyn turns his party away from the obsession with slogans he'll be doing us all a favour. I'm sick and tired of hearing stuff like 'flatlining' and 'cost of living crisis' repeated ad nauseam until the next one comes along...

Interestingly, I've lost count of how often I've heard trade union representatives and members referring to 'work/life balance' when trying to justify the current tube strikes in London. It's as if a message has been sent down from upon high to utter it as often as possible even if someone's just asking the time of day. It just sounds so insincere...

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Osem

It just sounds so insincere...

I still can't fathom why tube drivers are so well paid

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Kursk

I still can't fathom why tube drivers are so well paid

because they do a great job keeping ruddy cyclists off the road

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Kursk

I still can't fathom why tube drivers are so well paid

Leverage. When the system is fully automated like Singapore, and it will happen, then tube driver salary will be zilch. They'll be as obsolete as deep pit miners. Remember how they hastened the closure of the coal industry? Strike, strike, strike. Oh! No job.

Mind you the guy who runs the computer that runs the tube will be very handsomely rewarded.

[denphone]

Its going to take some considerable time to fully automate the Underground and its likely only so much will be done in the coming years.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Leverage. When the system is fully automated like Singapore, and it will happen, then tube driver salary will be zilch. They'll be as obsolete as deep pit miners. Remember how they hastened the closure of the coal industry? Strike, strike, strike. Oh! No job.

Mind you the guy who runs the computer that runs the tube will be very handsomely rewarded.

It's all very reminiscent of the 'print' before the days of Eddie Shah and Wapping. These unions will go the same way if they carry on...

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Osem

If Corbyn turns his party away from the obsession with slogans he'll be doing us all a favour. I'm sick and tired of hearing stuff like 'flatlining' and 'cost of living crisis' repeated ad nauseam until the next one comes along...

I'm equally tired of hearing 'Long-term economic plan' but it is what it is and they all do it.

Corbyn is more interesting in that he doesn't stick to the buzzwords. You watch interviews with politicians of all colours, especially Labour though, reciting the same talking points over and over again and answering every question with those talking points even when they are nothing to do with the question.

Corbyn is far more error-prone and far less likely to play it safe to try and avoid doing anything 'wrong'.

Which is nice. Labour playing so safe is pointless. We currently have Her Majesty's Government and Her Majesty's Abstainers.

Talking of all of this look at this nonsense. I was rather hoping that Labour would reform themselves into a force for democracy and localism, veering away from their traditional 'top down' ways. Sadly not, they seem scared of the answer democracy may give so are trying to pervert it.

No wonder they are so into the EU. They appear to be taking lessons in disdain for democracy from it.

They made the decision to allow people to vote for a one-off payment of £3. The unforeseen consequences really weren't that had to foresee.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Talking of all of this look at this nonsense. I was rather hoping that Labour would reform themselves into a force for democracy and localism, veering away from their traditional 'top down' ways. Sadly not, they seem scared of the answer democracy may give so are trying to pervert it.

No wonder they are so into the EU. They appear to be taking lessons in disdain for democracy from it.

They made the decision to allow people to vote for a one-off payment of £3. The unforeseen consequences really weren't that had to foresee.

I think it's clear they screwed up the supporters idea but I think they're entitled to vet people to ensure that only people with a genuine desire to see Labour do well should be allowed to vote. It's standard for political parties to expel people who are members of another party and even the supporters section has a disclaimer that you 'must support the values of the Labour party and are not a member of any organisation that opposes it'.

Mark Steel seems weird unless he is a member of the Green Party but I guess Labour rejected him because of his support for them? That probably goes too far and that needs to be kept an eye on. If they do rig the vote then the fallout will be extreme.

The idea itself is good in principle but this probably shows why parties have different methods of electing a leader.

Corbyn should be a worry by the way. He seems genuine but he has a lot of support for the more unsavoury parts of the left. They are not liberals.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Damien

Corbyn should be a worry by the way. He seems genuine but he has a lot of support for the more unsavoury parts of the left. They are not liberals.

Neither are a good part of the Labour party as a whole, which is unfortunate as there is in my opinion room for more liberal attitudes in UK politics.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Neither are a good part of the Labour party as a whole, which is unfortunate as there is in my opinion room for more liberal attitudes in UK politics.

True.

Also the thing about the 'Blairites' was that they were willing to compromise and attempt to win support from non-traditional Labour voters. The Corbyn people view half of their own party with contempt and moderate voters along with them. It will be all ideological purity. Look at the treatment Kendell is getting. In about a month these people could be in charge of the opposition. It's insane.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

because they do a great job keeping ruddy cyclists off the road

Heathen

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Mind you the guy who runs the computer that runs the tube will be very handsomely rewarded.

And I bet he rides a bike to work .

[Osem]

This whole leadership contest betrays what a total shambles Labour is. Leading candidates being eclipsed by a token political dinosaur who's already suffering from temporary memory loss when confronted with some facts about the company he's kept in the not too distant past.

http://news.sky.com/story/1538398/co...nned-extremist

Having come up with a particularly stupid voting system which was always going to be open to abuse, now letters are being sent out to all sorts of Labour supporters telling them they can't vote, simply because the party's definition of democracy doesn't include getting a result they clearly don't want in the form of Corbyn.
They've taken lessons from the EU clearly...

... and these people seriously want to be trusted to run the country again??

Now the kiss of death must be Russell Brand's endorsement surely...

[heero_yuy]

Just rejoice as Labour tears itself to pieces.