Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years

[Ramrod]

Indeed

Operation Priboi ("Coastal Surf") was the code name for the Soviet mass deportation from the Baltic states on March 25–28, 1949, called March deportation by Baltic historians. Some 90,000 Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians, labeled as enemies of the people, were deported to inhospitable areas of the Soviet Union. It was one of the most complex deportation operations engineered by the Soviets in the Cold war era.....Due to the high death rate of deportees during the first few years of their Siberian exile, caused by the failure of Soviet authorities to provide suitable clothing or housing at the destination, whether through neglect or premeditation, some sources consider these deportations an act of genocide

We have yet to see these 'heroes' brought to account for their crimes:

By decree of the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet, orders and medals for the successful completion of Operation Priboi were to be granted. 75 people were awarded the Order of the Red Banner, their names published in Pravda on 25 August 1949. On 26 August, Pravda published the names of 17 people awarded the Order of the Great Patriotic War, First Class for courage and heroism displayed during the operation

[adzii_nufc]

Everyone who voted for the Nazi party and for Hitler to become Chancellor should also be jailed, That's equally as impractical but equally as justified.

At least we can butcher as many civilians as we want nowadays as long as we get a terrorist every once in a while, thanks 'Geneva Convention' What's worse is the support the deaths get, 'They're Muslim so who gives a toss''

A part of the British public has become just as brainwashed as the german public when it comes to Muslims. See your local EDL smashing shop windows every other week, not actually having a clue what they're opposing as long as they can be racist about it.

It's easy to claim the old, Oh we know not all muslims are terrorists.. Doesn't quite work like that with Pre-20 cider drinking chav's and racist old nazi skinheads. Thanks to social media, they're not exactly a minority anymore either. UKIP would probably reflect this in the election just gone, They'll claim all they want but as soon as the youngsters heard immigration, they were all over it. Clueless.

Originally Posted by adzii_nufc

Everyone who voted for the Nazi party and for Hitler to become Chancellor should also be jailed, That's equally as impractical but equally as justified.

At least we can butcher as many civilians as we want nowadays as long as we get a terrorist every once in a while, thanks 'Geneva Convention' What's worse is the support the deaths get, 'They're Muslim so who gives a toss''

A part of the British public has become just as brainwashed as the german public when it comes to Muslims. See your local EDL smashing shop windows every other week, not actually having a clue what they're opposing as long as they can be racist about it.

It's easy to claim the old, Oh we know not all muslims are terrorists.. Doesn't quite work like that with Pre-20 cider drinking chav's and racist old nazi skinheads. Thanks to social media, they're not exactly a minority anymore either. UKIP would probably reflect this in the election just gone, They'll claim all they want but as soon as the youngsters heard immigration, they were all over it. Clueless.

Erm. no.

a)There is a huge difference between voting in a party, which a number of years later, decides to carry out a policy of genocide, and working in a camp where the genocide is carried out.

b) It's not about not giving a toss, it's about recognising real-world outcomes - in war, civilians get killed, it's only if the actual intention is to kill civilians when it becomes a war crime. If we didn't take any action which caused risks/death to people near the targeted individuals, we would have no way of striking back - that's why AQ and ISIS embed themselves within the populace.

I'm not being cold-hearted, just realistic.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by adzii_nufc

Everyone who voted for the Nazi party and for Hitler to become Chancellor should also be jailed, That's equally as impractical but equally as justified.

Hitler never won an election or was democratically appointed, does that make a difference to the justification

---------- Post added at 00:56 ---------- Previous post was at 00:49 ----------

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Indeed

We have yet to see these 'heroes' brought to account for their crimes:

Same thing happened to German civilians at the end of the war, 12 million civilians forcibly exiled from areas to become polish and Czech, up to 2 million died and nearly all the women and girls were multiply raped, the Soviets brushed the figures of as exaggerated and then dismissed the scale as it was only nazis whilst ignoring they were also raping slave labourers, concentration camp victims and even female red army pow's

[adzii_nufc]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Erm. no.

a)There is a huge difference between voting in a party, which a number of years later, decides to carry out a policy of genocide, and working in a camp where the genocide is carried out.

b) It's not about not giving a toss, it's about recognising real-world outcomes - in war, civilians get killed, it's only if the actual intention is to kill civilians when it becomes a war crime. If we didn't take any action which caused risks/death to people near the targeted individuals, we would have no way of striking back - that's why AQ and ISIS embed themselves within the populace.


I'm not being cold-hearted, just realistic.

Jean Charles De Mendes springs to mind, Civilian shot dead by British police under the suspicion he was a terrorist. They've been in and out of court since 2005.

We wouldn't allow drones to take out terror suspects in the UK. Nor would we accept the death of 50 British members of the public as realistic.

1000 civilian deaths caused by Western drones to 50 potential terrorists killed isn't realistic, it's legal mass murder. That's over 900 strikes on evidently unverified targets with no legal response. You can't possibly come to the conclusion they were just caught up in the crossfire on 900 different occasions because they weren't. They were very wrongly marked as kill with evidently dire Intel. Despite this they continue to kill civilians. It's not accidental. It's based on the exact same presumption as Mendes. They were wrong then and they're even more wrong now.

The western double standards are truly a mess. The Russians waltz into Ukraine and it's a world outrage. The British and US march into the middle east looking for mythical weapons and find nothing...totally justified.

[Ramrod]

The western double standards are truly a mess. The Russians waltz into Ukraine and it's a world outrage. The British and US march into the middle east looking for mythical weapons and find nothing...totally justified.

Erm, no. You may have noticed that a big chunk of the west is a bit upset about that being allowed to happen.

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Indeed

We have yet to see these 'heroes' brought to account for their crimes:

Yup. That is one example of how these things aren't fair. We can't prosecute those involved but we do wish we could.

[Kymmy]

Originally Posted by Hugh

.

I'm not being cold-hearted, just realistic.

Where though does someone draw the line? Even joint enterprise in this country wouldn't sentence a mass murderer's accountant even if the accountant knew what was going on and was to scared to stand up to the murderer.

This was a show trial for the sake of the few left who suffered in the holocaust especially as it's probably the last trial pertaining to that period in time.

Originally Posted by adzii_nufc

Jean Charles De Mendes springs to mind, Civilian shot dead by British police under the suspicion he was a terrorist. They've been in and out of court since 2005.

We wouldn't allow drones to take out terror suspects in the UK. Nor would we accept the death of 50 British members of the public as realistic.

1000 civilian deaths caused by Western drones to 50 potential terrorists killed isn't realistic, it's legal mass murder. That's over 900 strikes on evidently unverified targets with no legal response. You can't possibly come to the conclusion they were just caught up in the crossfire on 900 different occasions because they weren't. They were very wrongly marked as kill with evidently dire Intel. Despite this they continue to kill civilians. It's not accidental. It's based on the exact same presumption as Mendes. They were wrong then and they're even more wrong now.

The western double standards are truly a mess. The Russians waltz into Ukraine and it's a world outrage. The British and US march into the middle east looking for mythical weapons and find nothing...totally justified.

I fail to see how this is anything to do with the topic of genocide and who is still legally culpable and who isn't. You're just talking about inconsistent moral standards in the West and general moral relativism.

---------- Post added at 09:13 ---------- Previous post was at 09:02 ----------

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Where though does someone draw the line? Even joint enterprise in this country wouldn't sentence a mass murderer's accountant even if the accountant knew what was going on and was to scared to stand up to the murderer.

Actually they might well do depending on the exact circumstances. Especially if that possible was still involved in corrupt activities. In this case collecting and selling on the items, remember this guy also stood guard for new arrivals to 'help' with their possessions.

Another thing is one of the more constant defences on here was that he would have been killed if he objected but there isn't much evidence of the Nazi's harming or murdering SS officers who didn't cooperate with the exterminations. I believe one of the reasons they used gas was because shooting was having an affect on the moral and mental well-being of those being tasked to do the job.

[Kymmy]

Originally Posted by Damien

Another thing is one of the more constant defences on here was that he would have been killed if he objected but there isn't much evidence of the Nazi's harming or murdering SS officers who didn't cooperate with the exterminations.

There's lots of cases of the nazis imprisoning those going against them in political camps that were just as bad as the death camps so those assuming that he would have been killed (although the long way round) are probably correct

Originally Posted by Kymmy

There's lots of cases of the nazis imprisoning those going against them in political camps that were just as bad as the death camps so those assuming that he would have been killed (although the long way round) are probably correct

Not SS officers though. I'll look it up later but I believe there are even instances where they openly refused to obey orders and were not published. The loyalty Himmer showed them is one of the curious parts of the history.

[Kymmy]

Political camp, Russian front either way a death sentence...civilian, army or SS were punished..

There were cases of officers transferred to less direct roles within the camps so instead of taking part in the killings/cremations they were posted as guards but I have not heard of lower down people getting transferred (apart from the usual Russian front threat)

The world (especially Europe) has supposed to have grown up in the last 70 years and put a lot of this behind us yet we're pandering to show trials designed to squeeze sympathy for the holocaust victims and not to allow us to forget what happened..(as if that would ever happen)

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Political camp, Russian front either way a death sentence...civilian, army or SS were punished..

There were cases of officers transferred to less direct roles within the camps so instead of taking part in the killings/cremations they were posted as guards but I have not heard of lower down people getting transferred (apart from the usual Russian front threat)

The world (especially Europe) has supposed to have grown up in the last 70 years and put a lot of this behind us yet we're pandering to show trials designed to squeeze sympathy for the holocaust victims and not to allow us to forget what happened..(as if that would ever happen)

I doubt it sadly. The same old tensions and hatreds are still there as we have seen in Bosnia, Russia and many other places around the globe (N/S Korea, China/Japan, Syria, Iraq, Libya, Israel etc. etc. etc. The forces at work seem to transcend logic/common sense and I don't think we've learned much at all . IMHO it's just a question of how long before something major sets it all off again and we have global conflict...

Just my happy thought for the day...

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Where though does someone draw the line? Even joint enterprise in this country wouldn't sentence a mass murderer's accountant even if the accountant knew what was going on and was to scared to stand up to the murderer.

This was a show trial for the sake of the few left who suffered in the holocaust especially as it's probably the last trial pertaining to that period in time.

They might squeeze another in

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/...-news/1.666468

---------- Post added at 14:49 ---------- Previous post was at 14:35 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Another thing is one of the more constant defences on here was that he would have been killed if he objected but there isn't much evidence of the Nazi's harming or murdering SS officers who didn't cooperate with the exterminations. I believe one of the reasons they used gas was because shooting was having an affect on the moral and mental well-being of those being tasked to do the job.

Most of the shooting was carried out by eastern European units of eitzengruppen whose moral and mental welfare wasn't a high priority, unlike the waffen ss whose welfare was placed on a far higher pedestal for obvious reasons and the reason they switched from the far more efficient shooting method was because himmler watched some executions and was sick!

---------- Post added at 14:53 ---------- Previous post was at 14:49 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Not SS officers though. I'll look it up later but I believe there are even instances where they openly refused to obey orders and were not published. The loyalty Himmer showed them is one of the curious parts of the history.

What like eva Braun's brother...

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

What like eva Braun's brother...

?