New Acceptable Usage Policy from VM (discussion)

[AndyCalling]

Hmm. My stereo can reach a far higher volume than I use, which I paid for, but if I turned it a the way up to 11 for the day I would think my neighbours would have every right to ask me to pull my neck in. Isn't this the same issue? Still, a bit more capacity would be better as VM are running with the equivalent of paper thin walls.

[kwikbreaks]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

The 250 reference from ignition which I am sure he will willingly correct me if I am wrong I think is to upstream channels.

That rings a bell - I think it was.

[Dush]

You can download how ever much you want without effecting anyone if you just keep it after midnight. That's such an easy solution to the issue. The issue isn't people downloading more than 1tb, it's when they do. VM need to educate customers about this. They did this to me with the letter they wrote me about the 9am-9pm restrictions.

I would imagine that I'm one of VM's best customers in terms of not effecting other people even though I use between 400-900gb a month. I barely use my connection throughout the day, I actually posted a graph of my most recent 24 hour period in the thinkbroadband results thread. But when it's after 00:00 I hammer it for at least an hour sometimes three.

Someone using their internet connection 'legitimately' to stream HD youtube after work is effecting other users more than a heavy downloader who downloads over night. So my point is it's not heavy users, it's the time of usage that's critical.

No question a heavy user should be penalised by shaping if they are downloading at peak times. But for me in that scenario it makes no sense to have a connection over 30mbit since I can't use it when I want.

[kwikbreaks]

Originally Posted by Dush

You can download how ever much you want without effecting anyone if you just keep it after midnight.

Pretty much true I'd say.

The problem with that for VM is that if they advertised that how would they ever sell anything over 10Mbps? If somebody has to schedule their downloads then they really can't care if they take an hour at 100Mbps or 10 hours at 10Mbps. Unless of course you need more than 45GB a day...

[Dush]

Exactly!

That's why I was initially really pleased VM removed their letter policy as I downgraded my connection from 50mbit to 30mbit due to that. So it's a bit of an issue for them as I really don't see the point having a 100mbit connection that will get shaped when I try and usenet download. So now I think the letters were a good thing.

So my point is VM's strategy is all wrong, educate heavy users or do what telephone operators do and classify bandwidth as peak time and nonpeak time. So you can say off peak bandwidth is unlimited, peak is limited but to help everyone. Any of their competition who doesn't well good luck trying to deliver a service when people are downloading 1tb during peak hours a month!

Oh and it is annoying if people are hogging up all your roads bandwidth but rather than being upset at those people be upset at the company supplying your service. It's up to them to manage their own resources.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Dush

You can download how ever much you want without effecting anyone if you just keep it after midnight. That's such an easy solution to the issue. The issue isn't people downloading more than 1tb, it's when they do. VM need to educate customers about this. They did this to me with the letter they wrote me about the 9am-9pm restrictions.

I would imagine that I'm one of VM's best customers in terms of not effecting other people even though I use between 400-900gb a month. I barely use my connection throughout the day, I actually posted a graph of my most recent 24 hour period in the thinkbroadband results thread. But when it's after 00:00 I hammer it for at least an hour sometimes three.

Someone using their internet connection 'legitimately' to stream HD youtube after work is effecting other users more than a heavy downloader who downloads over night. So my point is it's not heavy users, it's the time of usage that's critical.

No question a heavy user should be penalised by shaping if they are downloading at peak times. But for me in that scenario it makes no sense to have a connection over 30mbit since I can't use it when I want.

Not quite, as I have congestion after midnight until at least 3am, usually 4am. It then starts again between about 8am and midday depending on the day. So VM have over commited themselves outside of peak as well as no isp should be congested at that time of day.

If 2 100mbit users are at it during off peak then any other user on any tier will cause all 3 to be affected.

[kwikbreaks]

I'd guess that they offered 100Mbps just to cock a snook at BT. If they get a few customers in the same area actually using it in anger at the same time then say goodbye to any semblance of reasonable performance for anybody else nearby.

---------- Post added at 15:31 ---------- Previous post was at 15:26 ----------

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Not quite, as I have congestion after midnight until at least 3am, usually 4am.

That's really only going to bother night-owls though. For scheduled downloaders (who are almost certainly causing this) it really doesn't matter what time they complete.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

So VM have over commited themselves outside of peak as well as no isp should be congested at that time of day.

Agreed although many will see congestion starting with the start of their published free-for-all periods.

[Dush]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Not quite, as I have congestion after midnight until at least 3am, usually 4am. It then starts again between about 8am and midday depending on the day. So VM have over commited themselves outside of peak as well as no isp should be congested at that time of day.

If 2 100mbit users are at it during off peak then any other user on any tier will cause all 3 to be affected.

If the 200mbit to each street value is true that's pretty shocking. They cannot provide a good 100mbit service then, it's pretty much a joke. 2 users just isn't enough capacity!

[Chrysalis]

it wont be 200mbit to each street, much less then that. My cabinet serves multiple streets and I believe it doesnt have its own port to itself.

Kwikbreaks I am a nightowl

[Milambar]

Uh, I'm a night owl, most my surfing/chatting/downloading is done between the hours of 11pm -> 5am.

VM do NOT need to move all the downloading to post-midnight. They need to fix their bandwidth issues properly, not just move the goalposts.

[alferret]

Originally Posted by keepitretro

(((((Hey Fella Read This))))) I currently pay £48 a month for just my internet and for that amount I WILL DO AS I PLEASE,

thank you sir!!!

Going back to the old analagy of I have xxx so therefore I will use xxx
So if you own a car do you drive it like a loon because it\you can or do you drive in A, Accordance of the law B, With care & concideration to other road users? I would guess the latter, so why not be considerate to other users in your area?

Oh & there is no need to use "CAPS" I can read & understand quite well in lower case.

[kwikbreaks]

Originally Posted by Dush

If the 200mbit to each street value is true that's pretty shocking. They cannot provide a good 100mbit service then, it's pretty much a joke. 2 users just isn't enough capacity!

Each downstream channel is capable of 50Mbps so those areas with 5 channels get 250Mbps. Of course some only have 3 downstreams but I don't think they sell 100Mbps on those.

[AndyCalling]

Originally Posted by Dush

You can download how ever much you want without effecting anyone if you just keep it after midnight. That's such an easy solution to the issue. The issue isn't people downloading more than 1tb, it's when they do. VM need to educate customers about this. They did this to me with the letter they wrote me about the 9am-9pm restrictions.

I would imagine that I'm one of VM's best customers in terms of not effecting other people even though I use between 400-900gb a month. I barely use my connection throughout the day, I actually posted a graph of my most recent 24 hour period in the thinkbroadband results thread. But when it's after 00:00 I hammer it for at least an hour sometimes three.

Someone using their internet connection 'legitimately' to stream HD youtube after work is effecting other users more than a heavy downloader who downloads over night. So my point is it's not heavy users, it's the time of usage that's critical.

No question a heavy user should be penalised by shaping if they are downloading at peak times. But for me in that scenario it makes no sense to have a connection over 30mbit since I can't use it when I want.

Right, so you really think that Youview boxes are going to be watched only after midnight? And that streaming gaming services are only going to be played whilst in bed? I think you are underestimating the potential popularity here.

Usage patterns are about to radically change in the UK. Yes, there should be management to keep the top 5% in check. The rest of us should be able to expect ISP provision to allow us to continue with our normal usage patterns. To restrict normal usage to after midnight is madness. VM and other ISPs will have have to move with the times or fail. They have no choice.

By the way folks, Tivo has noting to do with this. VM may add Youview to their Tivos, or they may not. It's their business and if they want to encourage Tivo users to pick up a Youview box from the Supermarket to go beside their cable box then fine. I suspect many may find that they don't spend enough time watching the cable box after a while to justify the cost, thus VM will be helping recession hit families save money. Very socially conscientious, I will be impressed with VM if they stick to their guns on this. Many VM users do not buy cable TV anyway though, and will be using Youview and expecting it to work well. If VM point at the Tivo and tell people to use that instead they will lose custom big time. Needless to say, they will not be doing this whatever their vision of next gen telly currently is.

[cook1984]

Originally Posted by Dush

You can download how ever much you want without effecting anyone if you just keep it after midnight. That's such an easy solution to the issue.

You watch TV only after midnight? Sure, it is fine for BitTorrent or whatever, but that isn't the problem. The problem is video on demand, i.e. iPlayer, Youtube, 4od etc. That is what causes the problems in the evenings and VM have set their (un)limit so low that on a 10 meg connection you can't even watch a whole hour of 720p video without being throttled (and effectively cut-off).

There is only one solution to this: VM upgrades their network.

[AndyCalling]

Originally Posted by cook1984

You watch TV only after midnight? Sure, it is fine for BitTorrent or whatever, but that isn't the problem. The problem is video on demand, i.e. iPlayer, Youtube, 4od etc. That is what causes the problems in the evenings and VM have set their (un)limit so low that on a 10 meg connection you can't even watch a whole hour of 720p video without being throttled (and effectively cut-off).

There is only one solution to this: VM upgrades their network.

Once Youview takes hold you can be sure VM and other ISPs will upgrade their networks. They will have no choice, so you don't have long to wait. Doubtless the work is already going on.