Labour Election Posters

[Flyboy]

Do you not consider such a bill as a campaign? If not, why not?

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Do you not consider such a bill as a campaign? If not, why not?

No, because it's a private member's bill.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Do you not consider such a bill as a campaign? If not, why not?

Erm, why do I have to disprove your assertion that a Private Members Bill, backed 11 Tory MPs, is proof of

the growing campaign, within the Tory rank and file

Surely the onus is upon you to prove your assertion?

How is it growing, and who, besides the aforementioned 11 MPs, are the rank and file that are growing it?

[Osem]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Erm, why do I have to disprove your assertion that a Private Members Bill, backed 11 Tory MPs, is proof of Surely the onus is upon you to prove your assertion?

How is it growing, and who, besides the aforementioned 11 MPs, are the rank and file that are growing it?

Now there's a question. I wonder if we'll get an answer....

---------- Post added at 21:51 ---------- Previous post was at 21:00 ----------

Originally Posted by Xaccers

No, because it's a private member's bill.

Oh right,.... that'd be why then...

Some opponents of the Minimum Wage that I didn't know about - BBC

..... it took years of campaigning before the minimum wage became law, and the initial opposition came not from the political right or from business, where you might expect, but from the left.

In the 1970s and early-1980s, most British trade unions were adamantly opposed to the concept of a minimum wage.

They feared that it would undermine the cherished principle of free collective bargaining and that it would pull down pay rates above it, reducing so-called "differentials", the gap between the skilled and unskilled workers.

And there was self-interest at work too. If a minimum wage protected people's wages, then what was the incentive to join a union?.....

.....Even into the 1990s, there was no consensus about the minimum wage on the left.

Can you guess which current cabinet minister wrote this? "The allure of a minimum wage is deceptive and should be resisted ... Fostering a high wage, high skill economy is the only way to reverse Britain's relative economic decline and to generate the resources to eradicate poverty. But the minimum wage is not the answer. If anything the minimum wage will make it even harder to achieve these ends."

The answer: Ed Balls, writing in 1991.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Erm, then why did Moldova's post state The acronym "MP" is conspicuous by its absence....

No it depicts members of the hunt not an mp and any hint of the law being repealed will be a vote winner for those people.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Moldova

No it depicts members of the hunt not an mp and any hint of the law being repealed will be a vote winner for those people.

Not aimed at you personally but surely they would be the stereotypical Tory toffs and vote Tory whatever happens?

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Not aimed at you personally but surely they would be the stereotypical Tory toffs and vote Tory whatever happens?

Most people should be aware by now that apart from the main organisers of the hunt most hunt followers are not stereotypical toffs as they are either farm workers or live in the area and have been brought up with the hunt as a normal way of life, not unlike the average football fan.

[Chrysalis]

Interesting report there on the min wage. Britian will do wrong to just concentrate on high skill tho since it then causes a problem for the 10s of millions of adults who are unskilled.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Interesting report there on the min wage. Britian will do wrong to just concentrate on high skill tho since it then causes a problem for the 10s of millions of adults who are unskilled.

Best get them skilled in that case. Everyone beyond those extremely disabled will be able to get skills.

Unsure if it's fair on the British adult to describe 10s of millions of us as unskilled

We can't compete with somewhere like China on cost of unskilled labour so short of extensive subsidies which make jobs rather pointless from the country's point of view we have to look at a balancing act.

---------- Post added at 08:41 ---------- Previous post was at 08:40 ----------

Originally Posted by Moldova

Most people should be aware by now that apart from the main organisers of the hunt most hunt followers are not stereotypical toffs as they are either farm workers or live in the area and have been brought up with the hunt as a normal way of life, not unlike the average football fan.

Optimistic hoping that most people will be aware of that

[Chrysalis]

How do you get people skilled tho?

Usually you learn a skill during work or will need to do some type of training/education course which costs money.

Even after all this is taken into account skilled work does not provide mass employment thats what unskilled work does.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

How do you get people skilled tho?

.

For me it was simple. I got off my butt and made sure i made something of my life by going to college or night school instead of holding my hand out and shouting "give me give me give me"

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Even after all this is taken into account skilled work does not provide mass employment thats what unskilled work does.

How do you propose generating additional unskilled work?

A focus on skilled jobs is necessary to avoid those people who have spent their time and likely some tax payers' money learning those skills taking them elsewhere. These people are more and more mobile and indeed are taking their skills elsewhere more and more.

Focus on ensuring people can avoid underemployment and so keep their higher tax payments flowing to UK coffers not elsewhere, along with welfare state reform to ensure that those who have no interest in skills can't turn their noses up at unskilled work is necessary. Outside of exceptional projects and infrastructure the government cannot generate unskilled work.

---------- Post added at 11:51 ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 ----------

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

How do you get people skilled tho?

Usually you learn a skill during work or will need to do some type of training/education course which costs money.

Training in a number of things is available free of charge or subsidised, there's a big focus on it at the moment.

If people can't be bothered that's their prerogative. It should be absolutely ensured that there is no way for someone to be better off on welfare than working, and to ensure that those who ignore the carrot in terms of training, and refuse work are then treated appropriately - fairly, but harshly.

I'm quite a fan of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemplo...enefits#Canada actually over our existing system.

[Chrysalis]

Well example I can give is someone was doing a plumbing course, his only income was JSA and couldnt afford to pay the travel costs as was some distance to the training location.

Job centre refused to at least assist in the costs.

To sirius sorry life isnt that simple, its ok saying I went to life school or college, but how was it paid for? you had savings? family member help out? or perhaps your current job had a good enough wage so you had enough to pay for it and ongoing living costs. Or is there free training/education in your area perhaps?

All I know is that there was a load of cuts in my area to schemes that were designed to get people skills, the cuts were done for 2 reasons.

1 - The money funding these schemes ran out.
2 - The skills people learned turned out to be useless as there was no jobs for those skills in the area.

By mass employment I mean we cant have 5 million solicitors, a million accountants, 10 million teachers and so on. There is only so many skilled jobs and the rest gets filled by shelf stackers, mcdonalds, cleaners etc.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

To sirius sorry life isnt that simple, its ok saying I went to life school or college, but how was it paid for? you had savings? family member help out? or perhaps your current job had a good enough wage so you had enough to pay for it and ongoing living costs. Or is there free training/education in your area perhaps?

I paid for it by not going to the pub or buying stuff i did not need and by working all hours that i could. I realised that if i wanted to get on there had to be some financial pain at the beginning. I see to many these days that are more happy to sit on the dole while doing cash in hand work and then complaining the Government don't do enough to help them. Parasites on humanity is what they are.