Back to the 1970s?

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Osem

Well some 'teenagers' take a long time to grow up....

In her case, another 72 years might not do it.

[ashgray]

Originally Posted by Osem

Oh sorry, I must have got that all wrong, I just detected that theme to your argument..... So you're saying that strike ballots might not actually reflect the reality of what the majority of workers want? Well if that's the case why aren't you a tad more forgiving of all those whose views on taking strike action differ from yours? Their view might actually be the majority view..

Why should i be more forgiving of strike breakers as i've already stated they undermine the power of the unions.i'm entitled to my opinion just like your entitled to yours.
And with regards to your point about the ballot box and if it can be trusted or not,i suppose it depends who's holding the ballot and who touches the box.
if it was to ballot for a strike and it was held by the union i would trust it and be bound by the result.but if any member of the management touched it with out a union member there i wouldn't trust it to be a fair ballot at all and would ask for the ballot to be retaken..

Wow - the thread title is so right; it is like being back to the 70s.....

[ashgray]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Except when you responded to Osem's post..

please show me where i compared the electoral sytem of this country to the electoral system of zimbabwe and afganistan in my reply to osems post..

Originally Posted by ashgray

please show me where i compared the electoral sytem of this country to the electoral system of zimbabwe and afganistan in my reply to osems post..

Osem stated " We live in a democracy and we all have the option to 'fight' to change the law peacefully via the ballot box."

You immediately replied with "Ballots can be fixed,just ask the people of Afghanistan or zimbabwe"

Which seemed to me to be qualifying his statement about ballot boxes in this country, implying that the same thing could happen here as happened in Afghanistan and Zimbabwe (thus comparing).

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by ashgray

Why should i be more forthcoming of strike breakers as i've already stated they undermine the power of the unions.

The unions seem to be doing a good enough job of that themselves.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

The unions seem to be doing a good enough job of that themselves.

And they're doing a pretty good job of tarring Labour with the same brush, just before an election - talk about turkeys voting for Christmas.

[ashgray]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Wow - the thread title is so right; it is like being back to the 70s.....

you said it brother i was a union member in the 70's and i'm still a union man just like in the song by the strawbs.
and its still them or us as far as i'm concerned.
i see what the greedy bosses are allowed to get away with today and i wish there were more unions to stand up for the low paid today.
why should the minimum wage have different amounts depending on age.a loaf of bread costs the same if your 16 or 26.you people go on about equality where's the equality in the minimum wage.
i see my son having to work 50 to 60 hours for a pittance theres no union to look after him,and do you know why because his greedy boss won't have the union in where he works.because the unions wouldn't stand for the way he treats them.
and if my son and his co workers complain there told to p*ss off up the road,i can always get an immigrant in to do your job.
you don't know the half of it sat in your nice comfy offices at your nice little pc's.
and i get sick and tired of hearing the same old mantra the brits don't want work,some of them do but not for a pittance.

anyway rant over.

You do realise that "Part of the Union" was originally an anti-union song, don't you?

[ashgray]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Osem stated " We live in a democracy and we all have the option to 'fight' to change the law peacefully via the ballot box."

You immediately replied with "Ballots can be fixed,just ask the people of Afghanistan or zimbabwe"

Which seemed to me to be qualifying his statement about ballot boxes in this country, implying that the same thing could happen here as happened in Afghanistan and Zimbabwe (thus comparing).

i never implied or compared anything at all about our electoral system.i was implying that strike ballot boxes could be rigged,because i've seen it done in a factory where i once worked.and osem and i were having a conversation about strikes.

---------- Post added at 22:48 ---------- Previous post was at 22:45 ----------

Originally Posted by foreverwar

You do realise that "Part of the Union" was originally an anti-union song, don't you?

only if you look at the lyrics sarcastically.which i suppose you would.

Ironically, actually......

And since I come from Govan, which was the home to shipbuilding and very strong unions, why would I think that?

[ashgray]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Ironically, actually......

And since I come from Govan, which was the home to shipbuilding and very strong unions, why would I think that?

because you come across as being anti trade union.

[LondonRoad]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

And they're doing a pretty good job of tarring Labour with the same brush, just before an election - talk about turkeys voting for Christmas.

You're getting very close. The leaders of trade unions, largely, are supporters of the Labrador party. If those people had the choice there would be no industrial unrest at this important time in the electoral calendar.

They don't have the choice because their paymaster is not Gord awful Brown or Totally Bliar. Their pay and position comes from the card holding trade unionist.

I'm not suggesting any conspiracy theory but in election year who benefits most from industrial unrest?

If I was Tory loving business leader I can see the advantage of being more forceful on some industrial issues if I knew I was going to get the support of the right wing press - especially in election year

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by ashgray

what i object to is people like you saying that we live in a land of free speech when in reality we don't and we only live in a democracy for a few seconds at the ballot box after that we live in a dictatorship for the next 4 or 5 years.
soon it will either be a brown mandleson (god help us) dictatorship or a cameron (meet the new boss same as the old boss) dictatorship.

I agree with that, one vote every 5 years does not a democracy make, it's everything that goes with it that makes a democracy and like it or not those things are being eroded, the right to protest has pretty much been curtailed, the judiciary is hardly independent anymore and the legions of unelected quangos are ruling more and more of our lives.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by ashgray

Why should i be more forgiving of strike breakers as i've already stated they undermine the power of the unions.i'm entitled to my opinion just like your entitled to yours.
And with regards to your point about the ballot box and if it can be trusted or not,i suppose it depends who's holding the ballot and who touches the box.
if it was to ballot for a strike and it was held by the union i would trust it and be bound by the result.but if any member of the management touched it with out a union member there i wouldn't trust it to be a fair ballot at all and would ask for the ballot to be retaken..

Yes you're fully entitled to your opinion and I'm fully entitled to point out the hypocrisy and double standards enshrined in that opinion and unlike your militant union mates, I'm not going to threaten or intimidate you because of it!

---------- Post added at 08:55 ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 ----------

Originally Posted by ashgray

because you come across as being anti trade union.

It seems that everyone who disagrees with you about intimidation and aggression on picket lines and the rights of those who disagree with their unions on specific issues is anti-union. Perhaps we're not anti-union at all, maybe, just maybe, we'd prefer our unions NOT to behave like thugs...