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Old 20-11-2008, 23:20   #61
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Re: ID Cards

I'm not insinuating that you're thick. I said I think it's far more likely that the principle of the issue is unimportant to you. Maybe you're not the only one with dodgy phrasing this evening.
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Old 20-11-2008, 23:53   #62
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Re: ID Cards

Against for same reasons as (especially point 2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matth View Post
Against:

1. Cost - I can see a "can't pay / won't pay" campaign gaining ground. After all the history of any project like this begins with insane underestimating of the cost, then the inevitable overruns. Whatever they claim it will cost, you can probably quadruple that at least.

2. Effectiveness - perfect ID does not equal security, in fact, it could mean a false sense of security.

3. Data security - the catalogue of incompetence so far does not inspire confidence.
And

Quote:
Originally Posted by demented View Post
Against. Civil, political and human rights are one of the most precious things any human has. They are not some airy fairy set of principles but something invented many centuries ago for which great minds have been striving for ever since. ID cards sets us down the slope of taking these away.

The reasons for ID cards are very weak and often hinge on vague and unsubstantiated bogeymen e.g. asylum seekers and scare tactics e.g. terrorism or other silly arguments such as the nothing to hide one. They are bureaucrats' wishlists, would be costly both in terms of money and hassle for some people and the benefits vague. For many such as myself the benefits are negligible and the costs very great.
With the number of crimes that can send you to prison these days walking blindly in to ID cards with the phrase "But I have nothing to hide" seems incredibly naive especially when under the guise of preventing terrorism you can be locked up for too long without charge already.
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Old 21-11-2008, 00:28   #63
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Re: ID Cards

I think most of my support comes from the fact that for most of my adult life i had to carry an id card and as i never had a bad experience from that i assume and perhaps incorrectly this would be the same although the conditions i stated would have to be in effect for me to support this. Also don't take my support of the idea of an id card as support for the reasons this government give as i think their so called justifications are at best spurious and at worst an out and out lie and exaggeration solely to scare people into accepting it. I am not sure anything the government suggests can be taken at face value anymore as too many times we have been told one thing and another has happened so i can see where there might be some grave misgivings with this idea and why people think it could lead to a lot more a point i also havn't made clear.
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Old 21-11-2008, 09:49   #64
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Re: ID Cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
"Rizz, if principles aren't important to you, that's your business."

Nice sweeping statement there and as you don't know me at all an ignorant one to make being honest. Just because i have a different opinion to you i am unprincipled thats great logic.

"your DNA would be anywhere near a crime scene"

Everyone is law abiding till they commit a crime which some in society do and when they do being able to quickly link them to a crimescene could speed processes up a little and also may reduce the number of people wrongly arrested. I am not saying this is a perfect scheme i never have said that but i also do not have a problem with it as in one form or another most information this will hold will already be out there in some form.

But then again maybe the opposers are right and those of us that support it are just unprincipled non thinking idiots sleep walking into information slavery . Although the use of such terms in a debate hardly gives me cause to believe anything else that the people using those terms say is worthy of much attention anyway.

I am all for a debate but if you have to insult or call someones principles into question in order to deabte it maybe your not ready for a debate and you should take a step back and ask yourself if that approach is the right one to use in any debate on any subject.

Steady on, I didn't insult you, or even imply that you are a non-thinking idiot who was "sleep walking into information slavery", yet you have typed that under a quote from me, which implies you are replying to me.

I personally have no problem with carrying an ID card itself. I have carried a card with me that could be used as a form of ID since I was about 13 (yes, I am counting bank cards).

What I do have a problem with is the amount of information that will be accessible via the card, and that storage of some of that information implies that the government is thinking we are all guilty until proven innocent (I have never commited a crime, and am never going to commit a crime, so why on earth do the Police need my DNA?).


I also have a problem with the fact the card itself will store a lot of information, and the back end database (as explained above) will make a nice central point of storage for hackers to attack.

Also, if I understand it correctly, they have been looking at RFID cards (similar to the Oyster card in London) for storage. Fine, these make things easier (no more pesky getting it out of your wallet when asked to), but they can also be read from several metres away.

Fine, so they may be encrypted. Given about six-eight months, that will be cracked. The Oyster card has.

So, imagine the scene. You are happily minding your own business, wandering along the street. You don't notice the person sitting in the car next to you apparently playing about with a small device. That device activates and scans your RFID enabled ID card.

Two months later, a card with your details on is scanned near a bank robbery in Leeds. The Robbers used gloves so there is little or no fingerprint evidence, and were wearing balaclavas so that facial ID is difficult.

Then you could end up having to prove you weren't anywhere near a crime scene because someone scanned a card with your ID at that scene, when you were actually at the other end of the country at the time.

And yes, I do carry an Oyster Card, but all that is on it is my TravelCard and a few pounds for prepaid fares (in case of emergency). So, if someone gets access to it, I am not going to be too worried (A few pounds is nothing to worry about, and, let's face it, as long as I can travel on my travel card, I am not worried if someone else does).
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Old 21-11-2008, 10:01   #65
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Re: ID Cards

whispers my id was near a crime scene cos the crime scene was my flat.
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Old 21-11-2008, 10:53   #66
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Re: ID Cards

Stuart i wasn't replying to you and sorry if you felt i was i don't always reply straight away so some times it may look like i am replying to someone i am not my fault i should specify more. I definately do not support rfid in any way and again i agree that there has to be a proven system in place in terms of security long long before i would be happy to support the card.

Right now i don't believe i would trust this government to be the ones to implement this id card at anytime as i simply find i cannot believe a word they say as so many times before they have tried pulling a fast one and have been caught out. Also they don't help their case with many of their so called justifications for the card as i and i know many others don't believe those for a minute either.

For me it comes down to an acceptable idea for me personally planned by a group of people i don't find acceptable and therefore it is going to be sometime before i would be happy to have one or support it as a compulsory measure.
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Old 24-11-2008, 20:12   #67
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Re: ID Cards

against to big a risk to trust a government with plus there is always this could happen

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ters-warn.html

next we will be DNA typing and bar coding at birth deciding whether they will be model citizens or not

what they have on the driving licence is already more than they need

any idea that id cards will stop people getting real false ones ( that is using fake id to get the real id card ) is laughable
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Old 24-11-2008, 20:22   #68
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Re: ID Cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogermevans View Post
what they have on the driving licence is already more than they need
Not everybody has a drivers licence. I don't. Or a passport.
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Old 24-11-2008, 22:24   #69
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Re: ID Cards

Against. Very definitely against. No two ways about it.
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Old 24-11-2008, 22:39   #70
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Re: ID Cards

Ok, why not... I'll volunteer for the ID card... where do I sign?
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Old 25-11-2008, 00:21   #71
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Re: ID Cards

Right here

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Old 25-11-2008, 01:32   #72
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Re: ID Cards

I made a pact with him a long time ago.
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Old 25-11-2008, 02:15   #73
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Re: ID Cards

ID cards are only of any use if, when being asked for it you have to provide an iris scan and fingerprint check which have to be done against a central database and not info on the card itself. To do otherwise, would mean that the ID card becomes just another easily forged piece of plastic. Imagine the queues of people waiting to get on a bus who have to provide a valid iris scan.
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Old 25-11-2008, 18:27   #74
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Re: ID Cards

As if it's not bad enough that I'd have to trust British state officials to safeguard my details and not to mis-use them, I'll also have to trust officials EU wide to do the same in future. This is an old link, but the idea has not been dropped:

http://www.statewatch.org/news/2005/...d-bio-plan.htm

Compulsory ID cards change the balance of power between state and people. With compulsory ID and other measures the people become the servants, not the master as they have been until now. For what it's worth, I don't think ID cards will be stopped despite all the protests. Too much money has been sunk into them by private companies for the idea to be withdrawn now.

When the day comes and I can't legally avoid them any longer, I hope I'll resist but I don't know I will. Like most people, I have a family to consider.
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Old 25-11-2008, 19:27   #75
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Re: ID Cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kymmy View Post
http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd[347]=x-347-61881

A very good article on ID cards worldwide
That is a good article. A bit dated, but well worth a read, as it covers many facets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
...My privacy is mine. It belongs to me. The State cannot have it. If it wants it, then it has to give me a damn good reason why. ....
Presumably you are "against" driver's licenses? Or is proof of your ability to drive a good enough reason to invade your privacy?
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