Disconnection for abuse

[Tarantella]

You'll almost certainly find something in the VM terms and conditions smallprint that allows you to do this Jo ~~ so go ahead.

I don't think they expect you to read his emails, but they do hold you responsible if your BB connection is used for anything that is against their t&c's.

[Toto]

Originally Posted by joglynne

Not sure if this is taking the thread off topic and sorry if that is the case but this thread has made me think about the email accounts being used on my VM BB.

I am the person listed as the customer of VM. Both my husband and I have separate email accounts. Mine are with VM and Google, and my husband has Hotmail and Google accounts.

As I was the person who signed up to VMs T &C (very many moons ago) would VM hold me responsible for any emails made by my husband on my connection?

Luckily my husband would be as likely to send such an email as he would be to go and start shouting profanities on a street corner. In order to check that his emails are not offensive however, do VM expect me to invade John's privacy by reading his mail, or am I misunderstanding something obvious?

You are responsible yes, the terms and conditions, or more explicitly the user policy for Internet says so. However, I would hope that you could reasonably explain it was a family member responsible, and that VM would accept your explanation as long as you could bring that family member in control.

Whether you are allowed to read your husbands email in order to ascertain some sort of compliance within a user policy is a whole other matter.

Keep in mind though that VM act on complaints sent to them, they don't, or shouldn't go reading your emails themselves (no phorm comments please). THAT would be a serious breach of privacy and there are regualtions in place that strictly forbid such interception.

I wouldn't worry too much here, the original poster had his services shut down because it appears he failed to follow a reasonable request and apologise to a VM employee for an offensive comment.

From this I would think that a family of PC users should become familiar with what their ISP does not find acceptable, and work within those guidelines.

Hope that helps.

So if someone is using your connection to abuse others it is your responsibility to prevent them from using that connection.

Mind what that would entail domestically I'm not sure, if they won't subm...errr comply.With children it's easy but a spouse?

Divorce,kitchen knife,frying pan,rolling pin..............

I'm not sure the police would be any help though.

[Toto]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

So if someone is using your connection to abuse others it is your responsibility to prevent them from using that connection.

Mind what that would entail domestically I'm not sure, if they won't subm...errr comply.With children it's easy but a spouse?

Divorce,kitchen knife,frying pan,rolling pin..............

I'm not sure the police would be any help though.

That is exactly what the VM policy says, and I would hope that an account holder being made aware of a breach of user policy would do the responsible thing and at least try to work out what's going on.

Obviously the ISP wouldn't know the domestic situation of any household it has on their books, nor should it. Therefore it is reasonable for them to expect a level of compliance that leads to no further complaints, and where possible help out if there is a security leak, such as an open wireless router.

However, getting a spouse to stop sending offensive emails would be a challenge, but flashing the letter from their ISP in front of them may get them to think twice.

For me I have a very secure wireless network, each PC/Laptop is firewalled, and all family members are instructed in proper Internet use.

[Gary L]

I've been away for a while, and this was the first thing I read. I haven't laughed so much in ages!

[ruddock08]

What's it to do with Virgin on what you put on e-mails on Hotmail or Gmail? Surely Vrigin should spend more time moderating their own email service?

I can understand though, as it was his broadband but surely Virgin have had to do some IP tracing or something through Hotmail?

And Virgin demanding an apology? I could understand them saying they will cancel your services but them demanding an apology, it sounds like two boys in the playground with the headteacher to me

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by ruddock08

And Virgin demanding an apology? I could understand them saying they will cancel your services but them demanding an apology, it sounds like two boys in the playground with the headteacher to me

I can guess at the 2 names from the team who it most probably was asking for an apology. one is Bill and the other one's Ben

[chuzzlemonkey]

Originally Posted by ruddock08

What's it to do with Virgin on what you put on e-mails on Hotmail or Gmail? Surely Vrigin should spend more time moderating their own email service?

I can understand though, as it was his broadband but surely Virgin have had to do some IP tracing or something through Hotmail?

And Virgin demanding an apology? I could understand them saying they will cancel your services but them demanding an apology, it sounds like two boys in the playground with the headteacher to me

If somebody reported the mail then its Virgin's obligation to sort it...from what i gather they just warned the OP in regards to this and asked him to put it in writing that he would adhere to the terms and conditions of his conract...

Then Virgin received a call, supposedly from the OP, telling them to **** off..this was left on an answerphone message. That's why an apology was requested...

[Thunderballs]

You dont roll over when you are bullied by a corporate and you dont allow them to push you around from one department to another quoting "breach of T&Cs " and words like abuse - without requiring them to be specific.

How many times do you hear people qouteing "data protection" ? as an excuse. Try asking them specifically which bit of the Data Protection Act etc the yare referring to.

The approach i have taken with VM is to respond to their allegations against me.

They specifically claim I breached thewir T&Cs.

Not at any stage have they quoted the Usage policy.

Now I am quite happy to accept a mail was sent via my connection.

But VM are specifically aking me to appologise.

As far as I can tell there is not one T&C I have breached even though this email contains a swear word.

For them to even contemplate sending a letter like this to a customer they should think very carefully.

Remeber this complaint has been lodged by some random person - it is a one off.

There is no history of my account being used like this, no previous, nothing.

Using the "evidence" VM are trying to use against me and their T&Cs I am simply asking them to explain what the reasoning, legalities etc are behinfd their actions.

There is no way I am a) going to admit wrong doing when I havent done anything wrong B)going to sign a confession and sentd it to VM just becasue they say I have done something wrong.

Specifically the issues here are do do with abuse and harrassment.

If a reasonable case existed for classifying this email as abuse or harrassment VM might have had a cause to send me a letter etc.

You cannot clasify one email as harrassment. Harrassment is substantially a pattern of behaviours.

This email was not addressed to a person or did not mention a persons name - you ccant harrass an inanimate object.

The address the email was sent to is not a personal email address or idf it is it has been made to look like a company or organisation. You cant abuse a company in this context.

Regasrdless of above - it could have been sent to the complainants email address as a mistake again it doesnt name anyone abuse anyone harrass anyone etc.

So there is no case to answer for abuse or harrassment. it contais no attachments or if it does they are not saying these contain anything of issue, so the rmail isnt selling anything or distributing anything so it isnt spam or anything to do with pirated software.

Nothwithstanding all the above VM should never have sent this letter accusing me of wrongdoing without speaking to me or asking for my input into their "investigation".

IMO someone got a complaint from a random person, looked up the traceroute - saw the swearword - sent a standard letter to me as account holder deciding it could be "deemed offensive". It has cost them 1500 quid a year and a customer becasue they are too lazy to think about what thye are doing.

The undisputed fact the email contains a swear word does not contravene any of their T&Cs or usage policies.

From AUP






". Virgin Media's Right to Suspend, Restrict or Terminate Your Services

• 2.1. We will take action if you abuse the Services (for example, by sending spam or making racist Usenet postings). "

This doesnt apply

3.2. You must not use the Services in any way that is unlawful or illegal or in any way to the detriment of other Internet users. You also must not allow anybody using your connection to use the Services in any way that is unlawful or illegal or in any way to the detriment of other Internet users.

This doesnt apply

As the User of record, you are responsible for all use of your account, irrespective of use without your knowledge and/or consent.

This does apply

This could apply






. Email Use

• 9.1. Email usage must be fully compliant with Sections 3 and 4 of this AUP (Use of Services and Use of Material).
• 9.2. We will investigate complaints regarding email and may take action at our discretion, which shall be based on but not limited to the following:

But only becasue the terms say they think they can do what they want and determine whatever they want to be a breach of the Terms.

Thats not legal perse - just becasue this clause exists does not in any shape or form mean VM can do what they like without recourse to the law.

If they could use and enforce these catchall phrases their T&Cs could simply say

"we can suspend your services or terminate your contract immediately for any reason we want to but you must give us 30 days notice and pay any charges we say you owe us if you cancel"

Well if you are lucky maybe our legal eagle Mr Angry will be around to read your postings and give you his considered opinion.

That is about as much help as you are likely to get here.

Originally Posted by Thunderballs

snip snip snip"

You appear to have overlooked Section 4 of the AUP

"Use of Material

• 4.1. You are prohibited from storing, distributing, transmitting or causing to be published any Prohibited Material through your use of the Services. Examples of "Prohibited Material" shall be determined by us (acting in our sole discretion) and shall include (but are not limited to) material that:
• 4.1.1. is threatening, harassing, invasive of privacy, defamatory, racist, obscene, indecent, offensive, abusive, harmful or malicious;"

And section 9.2.3

"9.2.3. malicious mail"

An email containing an offensive word, sent from your IP address, may be regarded as falling under these provisions, perhaps?

[deed02392]

Originally Posted by grubbymitts

Who else calls BS on the whole thing? Good trolling Thunderballs, but really, regardless of terms and conditions, VM aren't going to start disconnecting people for swearing in emails either from their own servers or sent from Hotmail to a third party. Well done. I suggest 4chan/b/ for your next /i/

+1

I'm sorry but if Virgin had been scanning webmail going through their servers for misspelt swear words, I think they would have had too many law suits on their hands to juggle their next Samuel Jackson advertisement.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Rob

Yes, if the recipient complains, and hotmail are logging the IP used to connect and in turn a complaint is then made to Virgin Media.

Hotmail do routinely log the IP of the sending computer. In fact, it is embedded in the mail headers for the message.

[deed02392]

So Hotmail is passing on information as to the content of emails if the recipient finds them to be abusive?