Pesky immigrants, they're taking all our jobs

[Osem]

Well all those immigrants who are claiming Child Benefit for their kids here and/or overseas will be delighted.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

It is all to easy these days to use and apply the term "workshy" on people that you don't know and have no idea of their personal circumstance. For me and my family just to maintain our benefit standard of living i need to earn £14,000 a year. Most jobs where i live are in the £10,000 - £12,000 range and i would not be able to manage.

What jobs are those?

Low end unskilled factory work, warehouse work and the building trade for labourers. A lot of the big company's that employed people for decent wages have long left the area due to a combination of factors.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Oh great so we penalise people for not having the money to have a lovely house . As someone that likes his statistics Xaccers can you give me some for how many of these workshy scroungers you think there are ??.

Can you go back and read what I actually said please?
You'll notice that I said no such thing as you claim.

You do not need money to keep a house tidy.
It doesn't take more than £10 a month on cleaning products to keep a house clean.
If you treat a house provided by the state like crap, never clean, abuse your neighbours, punch holes in walls etc, then you should be moved into less expensive and more basic accomodation, to make way for people who do deserve decent accomodation and will appreciate it.

Absolute figures of workshy scroungers doesn't matter, 1 is an unnecessary burden on the rest of us, more than one is obviously an even greater burden.

---------- Post added at 10:11 ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 ----------

Originally Posted by Charlie_Bubble

You misunderstand. I'm not adocating they are given nice cushy jobs in offices or factories (Do we have any of them in the UK these days), I'd make them pick up litter, clean up grafitti etc. crappy jobs that they don't want to do, then maybe if they then decide that working in a real job doesn't look so bad, a phased withdrawel of benefits from them.

No, that's exactly what I thought you said.
Though you haven't said how you'd force someone, who doesn't want to do a cushy job in an office, to do a non-cushy job picking up litter or cleaning grafitti.
Bring back gang masters with whips perhaps? (temping, very tempting!).

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

It is all to easy these days to use and apply the term "workshy" on people that you don't know and have no idea of their personal circumstance. For me and my family just to maintain our benefit standard of living i need to earn £14,000 a year. Most jobs where i live are in the £10,000 - £12,000 range and i would not be able to manage. I am not alone in this equation it applies to many thoudans of people in the UK.

Before anyone says that benefit gives too good a standard living it doesn't standard of living is not great but liveable where it impacts is things like rent and council tax and in my case prescriptions which would amount to about an extra £500 a month and while that doesn't sound a lot to some of you it's enough to complicate the situation.

Also before anyone says in work benefits wouldn't cover it all and i have discussed this with someone who is now a friend at the jobcentre. This government has it's reasons for wanting to stir up trouble on the benefit front and biggest reason is they have used all the other benefits over the years to hide unemployment and now it is coming home to roost.

But rather then admit bad handling no we will slap a label on all claimants and get public opinion against them so no one says a thing when we hit them all hard.

Bang on there its all been propoganda to manipulate the massess constant news reports about those on incapacity benefits and other reports saying all claimaints of any unemployment benefit has it too easy. When the real truth is the lowest paid jobs dont offer a liveable wage. They trying to give the impression peoples taxes are going to fund social welfare when in reality in 2008 alone its predicted over 100billion pound is going to be injected into the banking sector (seen any news reports on this?) making unemployments benefits seem like pennies.

---------- Post added at 15:28 ---------- Previous post was at 15:25 ----------

Originally Posted by Ramrod

What jobs are those?

80% of unskilled jobs in my area are under 14k a year. Even semi skilled jobs are in the same wage bracket.

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

.... They trying to give the impression peoples taxes are going to fund social welfare when in reality in 2008 alone its predicted over 100billion pound is going to be injected into the banking sector (seen any news reports on this?) ....

Speaking of which, did Darling mention Northern Rock? Strange. He did mention plastic bags, though.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Bang on there its all been propoganda to manipulate the massess constant news reports about those on incapacity benefits and other reports saying all claimaints of any unemployment benefit has it too easy. When the real truth is the lowest paid jobs dont offer a liveable wage. They trying to give the impression peoples taxes are going to fund social welfare when in reality in 2008 alone its predicted over 100billion pound is going to be injected into the banking sector (seen any news reports on this?) making unemployments benefits seem like pennies.

I am not making excuses for the goverment, or Northern Rock (who directly or indirectly caused their own problems), but the reason the government did that is that if they hadn't, and Northern Rock had collapsed, it could have caused the collapse of one (or more) of the larger banks (Barclays, Natwest or HSBC). If this had happened, in all likelyhood, our economy would have collapsed . Because, thanks to various factors including high property prices, far too many people are very heavily in debt.

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

It is all to easy these days to use and apply the term "workshy" on people that you don't know and have no idea of their personal circumstance.

I don't think anyone is stating all benefit claimants are workshy scroungers, but a *lot* of claimants are. When I was on benefits, I spent most of my days looking for work. Similarly, a friend of mine was a student at my Uni. Every day she came in, she'd spend the whole day working on her studies. He (apparently unaware I could see him from where I used to take a break) would wait until she was out of sight, then nip in to the local pub for the day. Yes, they were both on as many grants as a couple with no kids could get, but she worked hard. He didn't work, and when he did get a job, he normally lasted 2-3 days before getting fired.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

I don't think anyone is stating all benefit claimants are workshy scroungers, but a *lot* of claimants are.

Specifically in this thread, the "workshy scroungers on benefits" refers to (strangely enough, like you, I'm not sure why some people don't understand this) people on benefits who are workshy.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

What jobs are those?

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Low end unskilled factory work, warehouse work and the building trade for labourers. A lot of the big company's that employed people for decent wages have long left the area due to a combination of factors.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

80% of unskilled jobs in my area are under 14k a year. Even semi skilled jobs are in the same wage bracket.

Whats stopping people from training up and getting better jobs?.....and if the better paid jobs aren't in the area then commuting to them?

[dilli-theclaw]

I'm using my enforced time off work to re-train so that when I've finished my treatment I can return to work much better qualified.

I don't really care what work I do, I started off as a cleaner in a factory, but while I've got the opportunity to re-train and get that training for free I don't see a problem with doing it.

Am I workshy, probably, but at least I'm doing something about it I guess.

A lot of people (as I've said before) do class me as a scrounger on benefits and some on here have even told me so, although not in public of course

---------- Post added at 17:06 ---------- Previous post was at 17:00 ----------

What I'm trying to say really is that it doesn't matter who I'm up against, if they are better than me I'd expect them to get the job, so it just means I have to work that bit harder to impress at an interview.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Jefferson T

A lot of people (as I've said before) do class me as a scrounger on benefits and some on here have even told me so, although not in public of course

Don't let the idiots get at you. With what life's throwing at you and the way you handle it, you deserve every benefit you're entitled to.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Jefferson T

I don't really care what work I do, I started off as a cleaner in a factory, but while I've got the opportunity to re-train and get that training for free I don't see a problem with doing it.

Am I workshy, probably, but at least I'm doing something about it I guess.

I started off in McD's
I'm definitely workshy but I love a decent income more than I dislike work

[dilli-theclaw]

What worries / irritates me is people who use their disability as a badge, kind of like showing it off. Which is why although I do let people know what's going on with me I don't tend to go on about it too much

This seems to make people get irritated more with disabled people.

Anyway I guess I'd better not get too much off topic.

I know what you mean Jefferson i know people that constantly go on about whats wrong with them in fact in at least one case i know more about them then i know about me. I want a clampdown on the people claiming benefits they are not entitled too and i think any right minded person does. What worries me is this government and the way they will go about it already they are talkling about everyone redoing their medical test for eligibility. This is pure politics and nothing else and when the headlines have died away and they think they have sounded tough enough will allow a backbwench revolt drop it and claim they listen.

Also this government has been happy to shove people onto incap to get them off the unemployment figures i know when i was an official unemployed person everytime i went to the jobcentre i was pressured to go on incap as i had something wrong with me. Blame the system as well as some of the people if the system wasn't so dodgy and shifty itself less people could take advantage of it.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

I know what you mean Jefferson <snip>

That, I agree with completely