Attention-All NTL Staff.

[Dee V. Bee]

Originally Posted by injuneer

The terms & conditions that unions have fought for for decades are being eroded all the time. Perhaps you would prefer a return to Victorian work practices?

Agree unions help make work places a safter/better place to work.

In early 90's, the BBC introduced a thing under John Burt called Producers Choice. This resulted in a hell of amount of employees getting the boot because they did not reach enough 'points' on being a good employee. BECTU was just ignored a lot of colleagues got their cards.

Since 96 all broadcasters I have worked for, do not recognise unions.

[Womble]

Originally Posted by injuneer

I agree some unions did abuse their power in the old days but now the pendulum has swung the other way, the company can ask you to do something, however unreasonable it may be, and you have no defence at all. If you don't comply you are out, end of story. The terms & conditions that unions have fought for for decades are being eroded all the time. Perhaps you would prefer a return to Victorian work practices?

I totally agree with you injuneer!!

As i said when I started this thread, I am not a "typical" Union advocat (please have spell check installed). But there have been a few goings on recently that I believe, if we were represented by a Union, they could not have happened in the manner that they did.
Examples;
1,When my working hours were changed on the 17th Jan from 9-5 to 8-4, I was not told on the 17 Dec, as is required by law, I was told on the 8 Jan.
2, I have been recently informed I will not be paid overtime for "project work" anymore but recieve "time-of-in-lieu" (Can't pay the mortgage with it, bummer!). There was supposed to be 30 days notice, there wasn't.

I have never recieved anything in writing from HR regarding either of the above two examples.

I dont for one second believe the Union could have prevented either from happening, BUT, it would have been done properly and to the letter of the law. The Company at the moment ride rough shod over their workers completley unchallenged, this cannot go on, and must be nipped in the bud!.
The only way I see of doing this (apart from leave!) is to get the required 51% to join the CWU. The fact you are in a Union will make them think twice about cutting corners when it comes to Employment law.
So I say to all the sceptics out there, give them (CWU) a chance. Join up (you can always cancel your subsciption), lets get the required percentage and see if anything changes.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Womble

I totally agree with you injuneer!!

As i said when I started this thread, I am not a "typical" Union advocat (please have spell check installed). But there have been a few goings on recently that I believe, if we were represented by a Union, they could not have happened in the manner that they did.
Examples;
1,When my working hours were changed on the 17th Jan from 9-5 to 8-4, I was not told on the 17 Dec, as is required by law, I was told on the 8 Jan.
2, I have been recently informed I will not be paid overtime for "project work" anymore but recieve "time-of-in-lieu" (Can't pay the mortgage with it, bummer!). There was supposed to be 30 days notice, there wasn't.

I have never recieved anything in writing from HR regarding either of the above two examples.

I dont for one second believe the Union could have prevented either from happening, BUT, it would have been done properly and to the letter of the law. The Company at the moment ride rough shod over their workers completley unchallenged, this cannot go on, and must be nipped in the bud!.
The only way I see of doing this (apart from leave!) is to get the required 51% to join the CWU. The fact you are in a Union will make them think twice about cutting corners when it comes to Employment law.
So I say to all the sceptics out there, give them (CWU) a chance. Join up (you can always cancel your subsciption), lets get the required percentage and see if anything changes.

I was out on the beer last night with one ntl "happy chappy" and was in contact with a few more about non-related ntl things yesterday, they all seem to be a bit more pi**ed off than usual!

I think the big problem for the employees affected by the contract changes, was that "shifty ntl" did them region by region in stages. I know when they shafted the guys in Wales, and I mentioned it on this forum, someone from another region deinied my claims that it was going on at that time. (Not you)

I think ntl often use the divide and conquer method to break people into smaller groups, so they can walk over them without too much fuss. As soon as they have walked over the first group, they then use the excuse to the next group that complains that "Well so and so region accepted these conditions without all this fuss"

Unless you guys can get together across all regions and effectively communicate what the company is doing, there's very little chance of kicking up enough fuss to cause them a problem. The good thing now, is the jobs marketplace seems to be picking up, so voting with your feet could hopefully soon be an easier option.

If you were getting paid overtime and it had become the norm, it is an unacceptable change to your conditions if they stop it. I thought that amazing, but heard a story on the radio about such a situation where a company stopped overtime, and an employee went to court and claimed a breach of contract. I was amazed but the guy won, as the overtime had become a regular function of the job, I also understand that someone who works overtime cannot refuse across the board to work any overtme again.

It works both ways, but sadly in ntl wages, conditions and perks are always altered in the companies favour!

[h3adru5h]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Unions, in my experience are a pile of horse ****. Not worth the bother if you ask me. Too many self-important busybodies.

ok - haven't really had time to read through all post so apologies If this has been covered already.... but have you ever been a member of a union, or seen the positive outcomes that union representation can bring about?

Even if the union is not recognised - they will protect their members by offering legal advice and assistance. They can attend disciplinaries or argue your case should you have any gripes or problems (contract changes, alterations to your job role etc..) with the job.

I am a member of CWU - and I feel safer knowing I have a safety cushion to fall back on should I need to bite the bullet myself at any time. It appears that the vast majority of people here who argue the point that unions are useless are not members themselves, nor have any real knowledge behind the power of a union. It is important to remember that a union is only as strong as it's members and companies, no matter how big, see this as more of a threat than a person acting on their own. There is an apathetic view amongst people that needs to change instead of just sitting on your hands and waiting for the worst to happen - you need to get in there first.

I am not here to lobby or advertise unions in general - but simply to say that it is recommended you research unions and sign up with a union who holds the best track record (and has a good reputation among members). To me - £4.99 is peanuts compared to what could happen without them. The more people to sign up to a union - then the more powerful you and your union become. Unions have moved on a long way since the "strike, strike" attitude of the 70's!

[Chrysalis]

What do they mean by not recognising unions?

If a union isnt recognised whats still to stop a mass strike?

[PAZZA]

Give us a good old 1970s style strike, They where good!

Originally Posted by h3adru5h

ok - haven't really had time to read through all post so apologies If this has been covered already.... but have you ever been a member of a union, or seen the positive outcomes that union representation can bring about?

Even if the union is not recognised - they will protect their members by offering legal advice and assistance. They can attend disciplinaries or argue your case should you have any gripes or problems (contract changes, alterations to your job role etc..) with the job.

I am a member of CWU - and I feel safer knowing I have a safety cushion to fall back on should I need to bite the bullet myself at any time. It appears that the vast majority of people here who argue the point that unions are useless are not members themselves, nor have any real knowledge behind the power of a union. It is important to remember that a union is only as strong as it's members and companies, no matter how big, see this as more of a threat than a person acting on their own. There is an apathetic view amongst people that needs to change instead of just sitting on your hands and waiting for the worst to happen - you need to get in there first.

I am not here to lobby or advertise unions in general - but simply to say that it is recommended you research unions and sign up with a union who holds the best track record (and has a good reputation among members). To me - £4.99 is peanuts compared to what could happen without them. The more people to sign up to a union - then the more powerful you and your union become. Unions have moved on a long way since the "strike, strike" attitude of the 70's!

I will not join a union for 1 simple reason. I will not pay money to a union and have part of it given to the labour party.

I think you can opt out of the 'political contribution'. (Not that I'm particularly advocating union membership, BTW).

[Womble]

Originally Posted by Bill C

I will not join a union for 1 simple reason. I will not pay money to a union and have part of it given to the labour party.

Yes, that sticks in my throat too, BUT, I (and the well being of my family) am more important than my morals or my political leanings

[h3adru5h]

Originally Posted by Bill C

I will not join a union for 1 simple reason. I will not pay money to a union and have part of it given to the labour party.

so you would essentially put politics over your potential job security?

Originally Posted by h3adru5h

so you would essentially put politics over your potential job security?

Sorry but i cannot give money to that party or any other. Now if the union could state in writing that not a penny of my money was spent on politics then i might consider. and it would have to be in writing.

But as the unions in this country fund Labour "if they fund others then they are included" i cannot see them not spending some of my money on politics.

Why should money i give to a union to help fight a members corner be used to fund politics.

[Womble]

Originally Posted by Bill C

Sorry but i cannot give money to that party or any other. Now if the union could state in writing that not a penny of my money was spent on politics then i might consider. and it would have to be in writing.

But as the unions in this country fund Labour "if they fund others then they are included" i cannot see them not spending some of my money on politics.

Why should money i give to a union to help fight a members corner be used to fund politics.

I do see where you are coming from, as I loath both the Labour Parties (The Red flag waving one and Tony the Tory one), But my family come first, I would kill for my children, so giving 50p to Labour isn't much in comparison for a little peace of mind when dealing with the likes of ntl.
Incedently, do we (ntl) still have an HR dept, as they are becoming increasingly absent?

[h3adru5h]

But you live in the UK right...?


Meaning everything you do is related to politics. VAT, Council tax, Wages Tax..... all goes towards the governemt whether you like this or not. It's an everyday fact of life mate....

[carlingman]

Originally Posted by h3adru5h

But you live in the UK right...?


Meaning everything you do is related to politics. VAT, Council tax, Wages Tax..... all goes towards the governemt whether you like this or not. It's an everyday fact of life mate....

Big difference as some of your examples have obvious flaws, ie VAT, Council Tax, Tax etc is mandatory wherby paying or subscribing to a Union is voluntarily.

Go back 20 years and remember how unions were shafted by the Government with all sorts of underhide tactics to get their money.

Anyhows I will cease now as we are drifting slightly

[h3adru5h]

Originally Posted by carlingman

Big difference as some of your examples have obvious flaws, ie VAT, Council Tax, Tax etc is mandatory wherby paying or subscribing to a Union is voluntarily.

Go back 20 years and remember how unions were shafted by the Government with all sorts of underhide tactics to get their money.

Anyhows I will cease now as we are drifting slightly

It wasn't intended to be specific to mandatory or voluntry tax, but instead a reminder that more or less everything we do is for the benefit of the government.

oh yeah... also a good idea - let's get back on topic!