19-02-2021, 13:33
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#61
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vox populi vox dei
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 13,740
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Re: Uber licence revoked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Dude ... just accept you’re wrong. The Supreme Court is the last word on what the law means. It has looked at how Uber operates and says British law means Uber is the drivers’ employer. You can repeat your opinion until you’re blue in the face but that’s all it is - an opinion. And now it’s an opinion without any basis in fact, because the Supreme Court has made findings of fact.
The only way for Uber to *not* be their drivers’ employer in the UK is for Parliament to change the law.
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They could fold the company then no one is employed, then re-employ under new contracts that are more favourable to uber ,i would imagine there is a way around this without breaking the court ruling.
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To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
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19-02-2021, 13:39
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#62
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
Services: Virgin Media TV&BB 350Mb,
V6 STB
Posts: 7,867
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Re: Uber licence revoked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Dude ... just accept you’re wrong. The Supreme Court is the last word on what the law means. It has looked at how Uber operates and says British law means Uber is the drivers’ employer. You can repeat your opinion until you’re blue in the face but that’s all it is - an opinion. And now it’s an opinion without any basis in fact, because the Supreme Court has made findings of fact.
The only way for Uber to *not* be their drivers’ employer in the UK is for Parliament to change the law.
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1) I merely stated undeniable facts. You can't argue for a case X using reasons A, B, etc when those same reasons also apply elsewhere. I can well imagine that is a basic legal principle.
2) What "law" created them as employees in the first place. There wasn't one.
No doubt the drivers will be whining about what is to come. They won't able to work anywhere else at the time. They will have to be available throughout those fixed hours, not just when they feel like it or are not doing other work.
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19-02-2021, 14:04
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#63
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laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,272
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Re: Uber licence revoked
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
[/B]
They could fold the company then no one is employed, then re-employ under new contracts that are more favourable to uber ,i would imagine there is a way around this without breaking the court ruling.
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the point was that Uber were saying they weren’t employed by Uber.
This gives a good explanation
https://www.londonreconnections.com/...-uber-not-app/
He’s updated it today (@garius)
https://twitter.com/garius/status/13...006006274?s=21
Quote:
This is because the repercussions for Uber of this decision potentially extend beyond actually treating their workers properly.
Because Uber has been MASSIVELY avoiding paying UK tax for years.
Uber processes payments in Holland. Lots of tech firms do this to dodge UK and other countries' tax.
When you book an Uber, you are paying their Dutch subsidiary, but being driven around by one of their UK ones.
Beyond this (remember I mentioned tax) they have also not been paying VAT. That's one reason they get to undercut the prices of everyone else.
They do this by claiming that EVERY Uber driver is a tiny contracting cab firm. Who all then magically fall under the VAT threshold.
That's why this ruling has potentially larger repercussions. Because if they have employees, that very much reopens the debate about Uber THEMSELVES being the cab firm.
Which means they're then liable for VAT.
About £5billion of it, and counting.
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---------- Post added at 14:04 ---------- Previous post was at 13:55 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
1) I merely stated undeniable facts. You can't argue for a case X using reasons A, B, etc when those same reasons also apply elsewhere. I can well imagine that is a basic legal principle.
2) What "law" created them as employees in the first place. There wasn't one.
No doubt the drivers will be whining about what is to come. They won't able to work anywhere else at the time. They will have to be available throughout those fixed hours, not just when they feel like it or are not doing other work.
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The Supreme Court beg to differ.
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Last edited by Hugh; 19-02-2021 at 14:01.
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19-02-2021, 14:15
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#64
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cf.mega pornstar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,849
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Re: Uber licence revoked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
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The massive tax avoidance amounts to over a billion quid
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19-02-2021, 14:40
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#65
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,343
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Re: Uber licence revoked
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
1) I merely stated undeniable facts. You can't argue for a case X using reasons A, B, etc when those same reasons also apply elsewhere. I can well imagine that is a basic legal principle.
2) What "law" created them as employees in the first place. There wasn't one.
No doubt the drivers will be whining about what is to come. They won't able to work anywhere else at the time. They will have to be available throughout those fixed hours, not just when they feel like it or are not doing other work.
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They law doesn't work around people imagining what it is.
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19-02-2021, 14:44
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#66
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vox populi vox dei
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 13,740
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Re: Uber licence revoked
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
They law doesn't work around people imagining what it is.
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The police seem to think it does, but that's for a different thread.
__________________
To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
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19-02-2021, 15:43
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#67
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Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
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Posts: 37,099
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Re: Uber licence revoked
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
They law doesn't work around people imagining what it is.
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Willy Wonka, Attorney at Law may beg to differ ...
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19-02-2021, 19:47
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#68
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
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Posts: 14,618
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Re: Uber licence revoked
Well, the law is above us all, I guess. I will just make the observation that once again, the consumer loses.
And so do those Uber ‘employees’ who valued the flexibility that their flexible hours contracts gave them.
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19-02-2021, 19:50
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#69
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,511
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Re: Uber licence revoked
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Well, the law is above us all, I guess. I will just make the observation that once again, the consumer loses.
And so do those Uber ‘employees’ who valued the flexibility that their flexible hours contracts gave them.
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Absolute nonsense OB.
Uber weren’t innovating they were simply reducing their tax liability at the expense of employees rights. There’s no winners, there other than Uber shareholders. As long as the consumer is a British taxpayer this is a resounding victory.
I’m sure Uber can operate a flexitime system if they really want to.
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19-02-2021, 19:53
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#70
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
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Posts: 14,618
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Re: Uber licence revoked
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
Absolute nonsense OB.
Uber weren’t innovating they were simply reducing their tax liability at the expense of employees rights. There’s no winners, there other than Uber shareholders. As long as the consumer is a British taxpayer this is a resounding victory.
I’m sure Uber can operate a flexitime system if they really want to.
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Try telling that to the punters when they see the consequences of this judgement.
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Forumbox.co.uk
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19-02-2021, 19:56
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#71
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,511
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Re: Uber licence revoked
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Try telling that to the punters when they see the consequences of this judgement.
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Shrug.
If you can’t afford to give employees rights and pay British taxes under capitalism your business deserves to die rather than have you there as a parasite driving down revenues for genuinely sustainable businesses and working conditions across the board.
Last edited by jfman; 19-02-2021 at 21:02.
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19-02-2021, 23:53
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#72
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes with 360 software, Now, ITVX, Amazon, Netflix, Lionsgate+, Apple+, Disney+, Paramount +,
Posts: 14,618
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Re: Uber licence revoked
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
Shrug.
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I wouldn’t have expected anything else from you, jfman. A complete disregard for those people who have a brain and deliberately choose to earn their living on a flexible basis.
I don’t care what trade unions think. I prefer to listen to what those affected by their decisions think.
I know that is unthinkable to guys like you, who are irreversibly politically indoctrinated. So your reply is already anticipated. And by the way, I disagree. Response unnecessary. Good night.
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Forumbox.co.uk
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20-02-2021, 03:55
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#73
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,511
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Re: Uber licence revoked
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
I wouldn’t have expected anything else from you, jfman. A complete disregard for those people who have a brain and deliberately choose to earn their living on a flexible basis.
I don’t care what trade unions think. I prefer to listen to what those affected by their decisions think.
I know that is unthinkable to guys like you, who are irreversibly politically indoctrinated. So your reply is already anticipated. And by the way, I disagree. Response unnecessary. Good night.
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A complete disregard for businesses that’s fundamental innovation is to avoid taxes that fund public services in the United Kingdom.
That shifts the tax burden onto local people in local businesses.
I have absolutely no idea what you mean by “guys like me”. Taxpayers? It’s hardly indoctrination to think that those generating profits in the UK should pay tax in the UK.
If a bakery opened in my town that’s fundamental “innovation” was to not pay tax while other bakeries closed down due to not being competitive on price that’s a net loss to local people and local businesses.
Your economic ignorance, as ever, shines through Old Boy. Conned by Silicon Valley snake oil salesmen.
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20-02-2021, 04:54
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#74
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,182
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Re: Uber licence revoked
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
I wouldn’t have expected anything else from you, jfman. A complete disregard for those people who have a brain and deliberately choose to earn their living on a flexible basis.
I don’t care what trade unions think. I prefer to listen to what those affected by their decisions think.
I know that is unthinkable to guys like you, who are irreversibly politically indoctrinated. So your reply is already anticipated. And by the way, I disagree. Response unnecessary. Good night.
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And you aren't?
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20-02-2021, 10:08
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#75
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Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,279
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Re: Uber licence revoked
Serves Uber right. There is a massive Silicon Valley arrogance that laws and taxes apply to other people and not them. They use technologies to centralise as much of the profit as possible to only a few hands whilst destroying countless other companies in their wake. They undercut everyone because they are willing to operate at a loss to dominate the market, they avoid paying tax and they exploit people.
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