Madeleine McCann

[Pia]

Well i don't think their needs to be any more information, there is nothing different about them to anyone in the sense that they shouldn't have left their kids alone.
What does their history matter? They went for dinner every night and left the kids in the room alone, maybe it's true what i've thought about 'highly intelligent' people- they usually have no common sense. Or they've lived such a sheltered life they didn't think it would happen to them, that's a bad decision which caused poor parenting.

If you took your kid swimming without armbands- and it drowned because you weren't watching them would that be a bad decision or poor parenting? Not putting the armbands on is a bad decision, not watching them is poor parenting. Kind of similar if you ask me.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Chris T

I don't think there is anywhere near enough information about the McCann's family life and history in the public domain for you or anyone else to make such a judgement.

Are you saying that leaving your kids alone on more than one occassion whilst you go out wining and dining is not a case of poor parenting? This wasn't a one of, it was a one off that their daughter got snatched, not the fact that they have left them alone on previous occasions.

I dont need to look at their history to come to my conclusion. Its an exapmle of poor parenting, and I stand by my judgement.

Originally Posted by Pia

Well i don't think their needs to be any more information, there is nothing different about them to anyone in the sense that they shouldn't have left their kids alone.
What does their history matter? They went for dinner every night and left the kids in the room alone, maybe it's true what i've thought about 'highly intelligent' people- they usually have no common sense. Or they've lived such a sheltered life they didn't think it would happen to them, that's a bad decision which caused poor parenting.

If you took your kid swimming without armbands- and it drowned because you weren't watching them would that be a bad decision or poor parenting? Not putting the armbands on is a bad decision, not watching them is poor parenting. Kind of similar if you ask me.

I think there would need to be lots more information - more than any of us have any right to know, in fact.

Parenting is something that goes on every minute of every day, waking and sleeping, from the moment your child is born - you have at least one child yourself IIRC, surely you know this.

How anyone can presume to pass judgement on all of that based on the miniscule amount we know of the McCanns is totally beyond me.

Really, what is it with some people here? There seems to be some kind of desperate *need* to judge other people.

Here, if you want to pour scorn on someone, use this pair as your punchbag, at least they've been found guilty by a jury of wilfully and repeatedly setting out to harm their child:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...re/6939399.stm

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Chris T

I think there would need to be lots more information - more than any of us have any right to know, in fact.

Parenting is something that goes on every minute of every day, waking and sleeping, from the moment your child is born - you have at least one child yourself IIRC, surely you know this.

How anyone can presume to pass judgement on all of that based on the miniscule amount we know of the McCanns is totally beyond me.

Really, what is it with some people here? There seems to be some kind of desperate *need* to judge other people.

Here, if you want to pour scorn on someone, use this pair as your punchbag, at least they've been found guilty by a jury of wilfully and repeatedly setting out to harm their child:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...re/6939399.stm

Chris,
Slightly harsh I feel !! People judge it's part and parcel of what what makes us humans (most of us)

I think a lot of it dwells down to the fact due to a set of parents incompetence (and which ever way it's cut, thats what it is) that there is an innocent little girl out there somewhere hopefully alive but as each day passes in my opinion there is less of a chance of finding here so. And whilst people are seeing McCann on televesion and in the papers more and more maybe some are starting to resent them for a situation which they could of all to easily prevented from occuring

I'm not a parent, I've never been married, nor even engaged (cant find a woman daft enough to have me) BUT I would lilke to think that if I had children of that age that I would always put their needs before mine. Regardless of the scenario.

[Pia]

Nobody is saying they're the worst parents ever/evil etc, but the McCann's keep saying they don't think they did anything wrong in leaving them alone. Wasn't there an onsite babysitting service they chose not to use? I'm not accusing them of child abuse, they're extrememly unlucky. And to me, if they just said yes we know we houldn't have left them alone blah blah then i wouldn't even be writing this post. They're basically saying it's still alright to do it. People do, and this doesn't happen, but this time it did- it's unlucky, but it wouldn't have happened if they didn't have their routine nightly of leaving them there.
Anyway, that's all i wanna say, cos i don't even know what to make of this whole saga.

I'm not saying that they weren't incredibly stupid in what they did. I'm just saying I am concerned at how easily some people slip from condemning a stupid incident - even a stupid chain of incidents - to condemning them as 'bad parents' which takes in far more than whether they think it's a good idea to leave their kids alone while they go to a restaurant that (they believe) is within reasonable eyeshot of the apartment.

And I don't know what to make of it either Pia, really I don't. On the one hand I want to shake them 'til their teeth rattle for being so stupid. But on the other hand I suspect deep down they *know* that whoever took their daughter, they will share some of the responsibility for the lifetime of trauma she will suffer after this - assuming, of course, she is still alive. They are hurting, and they are going to hurt for the rest of their lives. And if, on the remote off-chance, they or a member of their family does read this forum, then the last thing they need is to read a load of complete strangers who are lining up to say what thoroughly awful people they think they are.

[Gareth]

A US paper has an article which asks some difficult questions

Questions For The McCanns
If Gerry and Kate are sincere about cooperating fully with the police, there should be no issue answering some of the most basic questions:

1) Will you and your friends take lie detectors tests? While not guaranteed, they are a decent barometer for an investigation's direction. If there is nothing to hide, releasing the results would be a public relations boon, and the investigation could center around Madeleine for a change.

2) What time was it when you discovered Madeleine was missing? Was it 9 p.m., as Kate states, or 10 p.m.? And why the discrepancy? How long did it take for you to call the police? There are reports of a significant delay on your part. You stated that the shutters were forced open, but the police and hotel staff said there was no evidence of tampering. And Kate, why, upon discovering that Madeleine was missing, did you return to the restaurant, leaving the two-year old twins alone (again) while a predator could still have been lurking nearby? Since the restaurant was only "twenty yards" away, your screaming clearly would have been heard. Interestingly, Kate, you yelled, "They've taken her," but how did you know Madeleine was abducted? After all, the doors were unlocked. Madeleine was known to sleepwalk. Or perhaps this little girl just happened to awaken in a dark, unfamiliar place, becomes scared and, alone and understandably frightened, looked for the comfort of her parents. When she didn't see either of you in the apartment, could she have walked outside to find you? And, by the way, Kate, why did you say "they" took her?

3) Your resort was extremely child-friendly. Why not use the inexpensive babysitting services that were available? Some reports state that you did not want the children to be around unfamiliar people. Yet the same people who ran the day camp your children attended were also the babysitters. Also, how could "strangers" be any worse than leaving three young children (with a combined age of seven) alone in an unlocked apartment?

4) Exactly how far away was the restaurant? There are huge inconsistencies with your answers to this question. Was it 50 yards, 150 or just 20, as Kate stated in an interview last week? Could you in fact see the room from your table? How often did one of you walk back to check on the children before Madeleine went missing: Every hour, half-hour, or not at all? (The statements of the resort staff differ markedly from yours.) If, as you say, this arrangement was so secure, and you could see your apartment from your table, wouldn't you have been able to see any alleged abductor? Isn't it true that your view of the room was partially blocked by a wall and a hedge, and that the other door to the room and the windows were not visible at all? Is this the "secure arrangement" you actually compared to eating in your backyard garden?

5) During a BBC interview, Kate, you were adamant that the children would not awaken during the time you and your husband were dining. Yet since Madeleine had a history of sleepwalking, how could you be so sure of this? Were the children given any sleeping drugs or medications?

6) How often did you dine out (at child-friendly restaurants) while leaving the children alone? What were the distances of these restaurants from your room?

7) Did you ever hire private investigators after Madeleine's disappearance? If not, why?

8) What is the nature of the Limited Company you established after Maddy vanished? How much money has been raised and spent? For what were the spent monies used? Has any reward from the company been posted? Are any family members on the payroll? What are the limitations, if any, on how the money can be spent?

9) Why did you travel to the United States when not one lead ever suggested that Madeleine was taken there? How much money did you raise in America?

10) You stated in an earlier interview: "Looking at it from where we are now, I don't feel we were irresponsible, I feel we are very responsible parents." Do you still feel that way?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Chris T

I'm not saying that they weren't incredibly stupid in what they did. I'm just saying I am concerned at how easily some people slip from condemning a stupid incident - even a stupid chain of incidents - to condemning them as 'bad parents' which takes in far more than whether they think it's a good idea to leave their kids alone while they go to a restaurant that (they believe) is within reasonable eyeshot of the apartment.

And I don't know what to make of it either Pia, really I don't. On the one hand I want to shake them 'til their teeth rattle for being so stupid. But on the other hand I suspect deep down they *know* that whoever took their daughter, they will share some of the responsibility for the lifetime of trauma she will suffer after this - assuming, of course, she is still alive. They are hurting, and they are going to hurt for the rest of their lives. And if, on the remote off-chance, they or a member of their family does read this forum, then the last thing they need is to read a load of complete strangers who are lining up to say what thoroughly awful people they think they are.

To me a stupid incident would be something like leaving a sharp knife within reach of a child or something similar. In my mind this chain of events is much more than an incident. It's much much much more serious than that.

Both the parents are obviously intelligent people with one being a GP and the other being a Cardioligist if I remember correctly ? I dont however understand or comprehend how two highly proffesional intelligent would make a snap judgement on if their apartment was in 'reasonable eyeshot'

I can't see where any post where people have claimed that they are awful people. Irresponsible perhaps but not awful.

My opinion has been consistant from the start

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Chris T

I'm not saying that they weren't incredibly stupid in what they did. I'm just saying I am concerned at how easily some people slip from condemning a stupid incident - even a stupid chain of incidents - to condemning them as 'bad parents' which takes in far more than whether they think it's a good idea to leave their kids alone while they go to a restaurant that (they believe) is within reasonable eyeshot of the apartment..

What they beleive to be reasonable and what is fact is totally different. Factually the apartment they left their kids in was not within reasonable 'eyeshot' of their restuarant. There wasn't a clear line of vision to their room, and it wasn't say 20 feet away

Originally Posted by Chris T

And I don't know what to make of it either Pia, really I don't. On the one hand I want to shake them 'til their teeth rattle for being so stupid. But on the other hand I suspect deep down they *know* that whoever took their daughter, they will share some of the responsibility for the lifetime of trauma she will suffer after this - assuming, of course, she is still alive. They are hurting, and they are going to hurt for the rest of their lives. And if, on the remote off-chance, they or a member of their family does read this forum, then the last thing they need is to read a load of complete strangers who are lining up to say what thoroughly awful people they think they are..

Assuminfg that they had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

If i ever left my kids alone in a foreign country for any length of time your damn right i would expect to be judged and very harshly judged thing is i never did that because of how i feel so it's a non starter isn't it.

---------- Post added at 17:14 ---------- Previous post was at 17:09 ----------

Oh and to me reasonable eyeshot of my kids when they are little more then toddlers is right in front of me with no obstruction of vision and sod all distance between them and me. Thats how i lived because as a parent thats what it means if you bring kids into this world you have a responsibility to them as a parent to always do your utmost to protect them until they are old enough to protect themself thats the main duty of a parent and they failed in that.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Firstly, this forum is read over the WHOLE cable network, and the McCann family/ relatives come from the Leicester area, and l would be very interested if they actually wrote an article for this forum, and there is every possibility that they could read what we are commenting on.

There is an assumption that she is probabley deceased, where is the corpse, the police have search the area, and now there are sniffer dogs from Yorkshire police over there, we do know that the police have a law, to state that they cannot reveal any details on the case, and this is what is causing problems with everyone.

There are witnesses who say that they saw a male person carrying a child from the scene, there are reports that they found blood in the flat, but we don't know whose blood it is, there has been reports that the Portugese polce have a poor record in child cases.

There are lots of children go missing everyday, and sadly these children end up in child slavery ( media stories state this).

we are as some forum members have said we are entitled to our opion, and l just hope she has not been abducted by a certain ' ring', as you will never find her, and l just pray that she comes home safely.

[Pia]

If i was a member of the family, i doubt i'd come across this forum unless it was mentioned in any mainstream media, i think there's that much wrote about this it's enough to keep them busy for an eternity.

I would not care if they saw what I have said. If I was stood in fron tof them and they asked me what I thought id tell them the same as ive said in forum.

[Pia]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

There are witnesses who say that they saw a male person carrying a child from the scene,

Yeah- a member of the family who apparently thought nothing of it, even though she reckons she was in that area because it was her turn to check on the kids (i read that somewhere). So i guess she didn't check on the kids then....
Which, if true, kinda makes me feel that it's a 'witness report' to back up the abduction theory.