Unstoppable migration?

[nomadking]

Must have missed the bit where the likes of Turkey and Greece are putting the supposed refugees in actual HOUSES, giving them free access to their health services, education, food, money etc. Or are they just in UN funded camps? Not a comparable situation.

If housing is the problem then ship them off to eastern Europe. Romania alone has seen a drop of over 3m in their population. Must be 100,000s of empty houses waiting for them. If the UK is allowed to move people out of London to seek housing elsewhere, then surely on the SAME basis as many other EU rules, they can be shipped off to other EU countries for housing instead.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Must have missed the bit where the likes of Turkey and Greece are putting the supposed refugees in actual HOUSES, giving them free access to their health services, education, food, money etc. Or are they just in UN funded camps? Not a comparable situation.

If housing is the problem then ship them off to eastern Europe. Romania alone has seen a drop of over 3m in their population. Must be 100,000s of empty houses waiting for them. If the UK is allowed to move people out of London to seek housing elsewhere, then surely on the SAME basis as many other EU rules, they can be shipped off to other EU countries for housing instead.

To confirm, we build camps for refugees and it's OK for them to come here?

I notice you didn't pick up on the 2.5m in Saudi a great deal of whom HAVE been given housing, medical, food etc. which means it IS directly comparable.


The Kingdom has received around 2.5 million Syrians since the beginning of the conflict. In order to ensure their dignity and safety, the Kingdom adopted the policy not to treat them as refugees or place them in refugee camps. They have been given the freedom to move about the country, and those who wish to remain in Saudi Arabia (some hundreds of thousands) have been given legal residency status like the remaining residents. Their residency comes with the rights to receive free medical care, to join the labor market and to attend schools and universities. This was contained in a royal decree in 2012 that instructed public schools to accept Syrian students. According to government statistics, the public school system has accepted more than 100,000 Syrian students.

The Kingdom’s efforts were not limited to accepting our Syrian brothers and sisters after their crisis; it also extended its efforts to support and care for millions of Syrian refugees in neighboring countries such as Jordan, Lebanon and others. Efforts included providing humanitarian assistance in coordination with the host governments and with international human aid organizations. Aid was provided in the form of money and goods.

The aid provided by Saudi Arabia to the Syrian people totals around $700 million, according to the statistics of the Third International Humanitarian Pledging Conference for Syria, which took place in Kuwait on March 31, 2015. Government aid and aid provided by the National Campaign are included in that figure.

Humanitarian aid provided to Syrians by the Kingdom consisted of food and medical, academic, and residential supplies, and included the establishment of Saudi specialized clinics in refugee camps, most importantly the Zaatari Camp in Jordan. The Kingdom was able to provide medical care in the form of immunizations, preventive treatments and medical procedures. In addition, Saudi Arabia sponsored a large number of Syrian families living in Lebanon and Syria (specifically paying for their rent and living costs).


Again taken from https://www.saudiembassy.net/press-r...s09111501.aspx

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

We have a duty to help those in need and currently it's one collectively we're shirking.

We're spending £12 billion plus helping those in need. Hardly shirking IMHO I don't believe we should also throw open the doors to anyone who wants to come into this country to the detrement of the indiginous population.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Or, they're heading to where they are being made to feel welcome, and who wouldn't. It's not exactly rocket science is it ?

Of course it isn't rocket science and I'd probably do the same. But then I wouldn't qualify as being 'desperate' or 'in need'.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

We're spending £12 billion plus helping those in need. Hardly shirking IMHO I don't believe we should also throw open the doors to anyone who wants to come into this country to the detrement of the indiginous population.

Check your facts, £12bn is the TOTAL international aid budget

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Check your facts, £12bn is the TOTAL international aid budget

Are you claiming that this money is NOT being spent on those in need. Or is it that you have more sympathy for Syrians etc rather than others?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Russ

Of course it isn't rocket science and I'd probably do the same. But then I wouldn't qualify as being 'desperate' or 'in need'.

Let's see, travel 2000 miles (for example) to a country which has stated it doesn't want refugees or travel 3000 miles to somewhere that will welcome you. Doesn't make you any less desperate or in need in my book.

---------- Post added at 11:57 ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 ----------

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Are you claiming that this money is NOT being spent on those in need. Or is it that you have more sympathy for Syrians etc rather than others?

Considering some of our international aid budget goes to India, A powerhouse economy which has nuclear weapons. I'm saying the money can be better spent. I'm also saying we need to better prioritise our treatment of refugees.

Are you saying it's acceptable for the UK to go into countries such as Iraq,Libya or Syria to attempt and in certain instances succeed in destabilise those countries. And then all we do is give them some money??

[techguyone]

That's because you're a lefty luvvie .....[Mod Edit - insult removed] You and your Thatcherism quotes, pretty funny considering your age Thatcher couldn't have done much to affect you personally...

Ask those who died in the Med or suffocated in lorries in Austria, that travelling further isn't hazardous.

Oh and stop doing the 'we caused the problem with our western Democracy & wars'. *I* did no such thing, I'd have quite happily left them all to it, they seem perfectly proficient in killing each other without any need of our help. Perhaps is Golden Tone hadn't fed everyone a line of bs with his WMD there wouldn't have been a war (Remember he's like the opposite of Thatcher)

And stop calling them Refugees, they stopped being that, when they kept crossing numerous Countries borders - you can't have it both ways.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by techguyone

That's because you're a lefty luvvie [Mod Edit - insult removed]. You and your Thatcherism quotes, pretty funny considering your age Thatcher couldn't have done much to affect you personally...

Ask those who died in the Med or suffocated in lorries in Austria, that travelling further isn't hazardous.

Oh and stop doing the 'we caused the problem with our western Democracy & wars'. *I* did no such thing, I'd have quite happily left them all to it, they seem perfectly proficient in killing each other without any need of our help. Perhaps is Golden Tone hadn't fed everyone a line of bs with his WMD there wouldn't have been a war (Remember he's like the opposite of Thatcher)

And stop calling them Refugees, they stopped being that, when they kept crossing numerous Countries borders - you can't have it both ways.

How on earth would you know what Thatcher did to me personally you utter [Mod Edit - insult removed] ?

I'm no leftie luvvie idiot thanks, I'm a balanced individual who believes in humanity.

We, collectively did cause the problem, we, collectively voted in the government that lead us into multiple conflicts where their legality could be disputed.

The problem is we were lead to wars, that have helped to cause this crisis. we now have to deal with the consequences

And, they are refugees as per definition:-


The 1951 Refugee Convention spells out that a refugee is someone who "owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to, or owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country."

It has the nothing to do with which country borders they cross.

Things are getting a little heated - attack the proposition/comment, not the person, please.

If you don't feel you can follow this guideline, please leave the discussion until you have cooled off enough to do so.

[mrmistoffelees]

[Mod Edit - insult removed] comment withdrawn, apologies.

It was a general comment....

[Osem]

Originally Posted by techguyone

That's because you're a lefty luvvie idiot. You and your Thatcherism quotes, pretty funny considering your age Thatcher couldn't have done much to affect you personally...

Ask those who died in the Med or suffocated in lorries in Austria, that travelling further isn't hazardous.

Oh and stop doing the 'we caused the problem with our western Democracy & wars'. *I* did no such thing, I'd have quite happily left them all to it, they seem perfectly proficient in killing each other without any need of our help. Perhaps is Golden Tone hadn't fed everyone a line of bs with his WMD there wouldn't have been a war (Remember he's like the opposite of Thatcher)

And stop calling them Refugees, they stopped being that, when they kept crossing numerous Countries borders - you can't have it both ways.

I tend to agree that there's a clear political motive amongst SOME of those who're so very keen to admit all and sundry then worry about the consequences for us all later. No doubt when the irreversible damage to our society is well and truly done they'll scuttle off to find another worthy cause and find a way to blame the damage on Thatcher or some other evil Tory xenophobe...

Labour have previous when it comes to matters migration haven't they - an intentional and cynical policy of social engineering, importing people likely to remain here and vote for them in perpetuity. Shirley Porter with diamond encrusted knobs on! Only now they're out of office and seeking a way back in are they reluctantly admitting the negatives they once vehemently denied - the pressure on services/resources, the effect on low skilled workers, the tensions between communities. etc. etc. etc. Wind back the tape a decade or more and you'll hear these same people shouting down those of us who had the temerity to point out the inevitable consequences of their policy. Some of them are doing exactly the same now and others are only showing tacit dissent from that line because of the prevailing public mood of opposition. Give these people power again and it'll be more of the same make no mistake!

The Tories have abjectly failed to control immigration, having (cynically I believe) promised the undeliverable, yet even they have more credibility than Corbyn's cronies on this subject . Right now I think we're very lucky they're in power, because the alternative with Labour in charge would be a nightmare.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Osem

I tend to agree that there's a clear political motive amongst SOME of those who're so very keen to admit all and sundry then worry about the consequences for us all later. No doubt when the irreversible damage to our society is well and truly done they'll scuttle off to find another worthy cause and find a way to blame the damage on Thatcher or some other evil Tory xenophobe...

Labour have previous when it comes to matters migration haven't they - an intentional and cynical policy of social engineering, importing people likely to remain here and vote for them in perpetuity. Shirley Porter with diamond encrusted knobs on! Only now they're out of office and seeking a way back in are they reluctantly admitting the negatives they once vehemently denied - the pressure on services/resources, the effect on low skilled workers, the tensions between communities. etc. etc. etc. Wind back the tape a decade or more and you'll hear these same people shouting down those of us who had the temerity to point out the inevitable consequences of their policy. Some of them are doing exactly the same now and others are only showing tacit dissent from that line because of the prevailing public mood of opposition. Give these people power again and it'll be more of the same make no mistake!

The Tories have abjectly failed to control immigration, having promised the undeliverable, yet even they have more credibility than Corbyn's cronies on this subject . Right now I think we're very lucky they're in power, because the alternative would be a nightmare if Corbyn was at the helm.

Wild speculation as always


A very very simple question for you. (taken from the BBC)

Who are the 120,000?
All are migrants "in clear need of international protection" to be resettled from Italy, Greece, Hungary to other EU member states
15,600 from Italy, 50,400 from Greece, 54,000 from Hungary, though it is unclear how many are still in Hungary
Initial screening of asylum applicants carried out in Greece, Hungary and Italy
Syrians, Eritreans, Iraqis prioritised
Financial penalty of 0.002% of GDP for those member countries refusing to accept relocated migrants
Relocation to accepting countries depends on size of economy and population, average number of asylum applications
Transfer of individual applicants within two month

Do you think the above is acceptable? and that the UK should play it's FAIR part?

[Osem]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Here they come:



Paywall link

We're drowning in them.

No, no, no!!! We're not doing enough!!!

In other news:

I notice the offers of free housing etc. seem to have dried up somewhat, maybe folks have suddenly realised that, contrary to what the likes of the BBC like to show, the vast majority of those on the move in the EU are single young men, not little old ladies, pregnant women and cute young children. I can see fights breaking out amongst the great and the good as they struggle to take in the nice refugees as opposed to the more challenging who'll be left for the rest of us to deal with...