Madeleine McCann

[smicer07]

Hmmm really don't know what to make of this personally. I've always found it rather strange that the babies that were in the room with Madeleine, supposedly, were not taken or harmed in any way. That to me suggests two things: the attack on Madeleine was for some sort of sexual pleasure leading to murder and that the killer wasn't "into" babies, that the parents were somehow involved... new twins... maybe Madeleine was getting "too old" for them and they wanted to concentrate on their new children... or of course that the attacker (if there was one of them), only had the chance to take one of the children (although why would he take the oldest, and potentially loudest and more likely to create a scene?). All speculation though, just a few thoughts.

Originally Posted by danielf

It got them a lot of coverage though!

I have felt from early on that they sought an incredible amount of attention, so I would say they invited the press in. Then again, I cannot begin to imagine their situation, so I couldn't say what I would do.

At the risk of turning it into an argument over semantics, yes, I agree they sought attention, but I'm objecting to the use of 'invited' because it makes it sound like it was something they desired or courted, rather than something they felt they needed to do.

I would try to try to move heaven and earth if it was my daughter and I expect I'd do what the McCanns have done. I'd be doing it out of necessity though, and having been a hack, in the full knowledge that there would be a faustian price to pay at some stage. Miserable, heartless, cynical sods, the lot of them. Partly why I got out of it ...

Well if you want to argue over the "invited" part go for it but they have certainly courted the press more then they needed too and that was what i meant. Press part of this to be honest is not the most worrying part for me in this whole affair.

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Well if you want to argue over the "invited" part go for it but they have certainly courted the press more then they needed too and that was what i meant. Press part of this to be honest is not the most worrying part for me in this whole affair.

Well, now I'm curious about what you would consider to be 'necessary' courting of the press ... where would you draw the line, and why? Are you suggesting that there are limits to how far parents should go to try to get their child rescued?

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Do you think that they(the parents) have a case to answer for regarding negligence when they get back to the UK? Should social services get involved to protect the 'safety/well being' of the twins.

It's not the first time that they had left the kids alone, it's just the first time they've got caught out.

Does the abduction/disappearance/death of their daughter (which they might have something to do with) absolve them from any future questioning from say, social services.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Chris T

Well, now I'm curious about what you would consider to be 'necessary' courting of the press ... where would you draw the line, and why? Are you suggesting that there are limits to how far parents should go to try to get their child rescued?

It's a difficult question that one, but I have felt uneasy about the amount of attention they sought. They've gone on National television in Holland and Germany (and spoke to the Pope) and I did wonder if that served any purpose (realistically). I seem to recall they were quizzed about this, and their reply was that they were trying to keep it in the news as much (and as long) as possible as it would increase the chances of finding her back. Whether there is a line to draw I don't know, but this case has received considerably more attention than other cases of children going missing. The McCanns played an important part in that.

Chris not being funny mate but the fact they buggered off and left their kids alone doesn't shout to me the personification of parenthood. I expect the press to report what is happening with the kiddie not that the parents were jetting off here and there looking for her. most parents that have a child abducted make an appeal and then leave it to the proper authoritie's to liase with the press the mc'canns have been more then happy to go in front of the camera's on many occasion's when they didn't need too. Salif yes i do think there is a case to answer but i doubt very much anything will happen about it sadly.

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Chris not being funny mate but the fact they buggered off and left their kids alone doesn't shout to me the personification of parenthood. I expect the press to report what is happening with the kiddie not that the parents were jetting off here and there looking for her. most parents that have a child abducted make an appeal and then leave it to the proper authoritie's to liase with the press the mc'canns have been more then happy to go in front of the camera's on many occasion's when they didn't need too. Salif yes i do think there is a case to answer but i doubt very much anything will happen about it sadly.

I agreee, it was a very stupid thing to do, but I suspect it's not so uncommon as we might like to think - especially amongst intelligent parents who think they have weighed up, and are on top of, the risks, as the McCanns apparently thought at the time.

I think some amount of their Press 'courting' can probably be attributed to feelings of guilt, and trying to make up for what in hindsight was obviously a critical error of judgement.

But I don't think an error of judgement, even if repeated, makes you a 'bad' parent, requiring the serious attention of Social Services. There are plenty more deserving cases in this country where councils should be directing their limited budgets.

There we differ i have 2 kids and if i had left them alone when they were little more then baby's i would call my self a bad parent as i think the vast majority of parents would.

[Osem]

I believe Mrs McCann in particular has media friends and this may well explain the way in which they've dealt with the press and the manner in which they've managed to keep the story rolling. The press have a constant appetite for news which needs to be fed or they very rapidly lose interest. To that extent to McCann's are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Although I think they were negligent in leaving 3 such young children alone I can't see any action being taken against them unless new information comes to light about this whole affair. Whether the child is found alive or not, I think they will be deemed by the relevant authorities to have suffered enough.

Many people have understandably stated their empathy for the McCanns yet I have far more sympathy for their children who were left alone for no good reason. Are they bad parents or was it just an error of judgement? I don't know, but I think many people just can't understand how 2 such well educated professional people could be so apparently blase about leaving such young children all alone, especially when they had the resources available to make doing that totally unnecessary.

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

There we differ i have 2 kids and if i had left them alone when they were little more then baby's i would call my self a bad parent as i think the vast majority of parents would.

I have two children as well, and since becoming a parent I hope I have learned to be a little less keen to stand in judgement over other parents and their choices.

There is a world of difference between a bad parent, and a good parent who makes a bad decision. I sincerely hope you are never in the position of having to defend yourself having made a bad decision, if the 'vast majority' of parents really are as swift to condemn as you seem to think.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Chris T

I have two children as well, and since becoming a parent I hope I have learned to be a little less keen to stand in judgement over other parents and their choices.

There is a world of difference between a bad parent, and a good parent who makes a bad decision. I sincerely hope you are never in the position of having to defend yourself having made a bad decision, if the 'vast majority' of parents really are as swift to condemn as you seem to think.

Originally Posted by Chris T

I have two children as well, and since becoming a parent I hope I have learned to be a little less keen to stand in judgement over other parents and their choices.

There is a world of difference between a bad parent, and a good parent who makes a bad decision. I sincerely hope you are never in the position of having to defend yourself having made a bad decision, if the 'vast majority' of parents really are as swift to condemn as you seem to think.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

There we differ i have 2 kids and if i had left them alone when they were little more then baby's i would call my self a bad parent as i think the vast majority of parents would.

Hear hear mate......

Whatver people say, I think that they are irresponsible parents for doing this. The fact that they are supposedly intelligent enough to know better, and had the money to pay for child care services makes it even worse.

I am not saying that they deserved what happened as a result of their irresponsible parenting, but the majority of my sympathy and sadness lies with Maddie, not her parents.

Some people have said to me that I don't know how they treated their kids normally, so i should not criticise them. I ahave heard others say that they could be loving parents, and I don't deny that they arent.

However, their irresponsibility left an opportunity for their daughter to be abducted/murdered or her dying as a result of an accident. This is not the same as leaving your child upstairs for a few minutes or asleep in her room whilst your in the house as well, albeit in the garden. I can understand people having lapses and making errors of judgement in their parenting skills, but anyone in my opinion who leaves 3 under 4s at home alone (especially in a foreign country), whilst they are out wining and dining in a restaurant, is a poor example to good parenting.

This was a grossly irresponsible thing to do, and I would have no qualms with social services or even the police being involved as soon as they land in London.

---------- Post added at 15:20 ---------- Previous post was at 15:11 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris T

I have two children as well, and since becoming a parent I hope I have learned to be a little less keen to stand in judgement over other parents and their choices.

There is a world of difference between a bad parent, and a good parent who makes a bad decision. I sincerely hope you are never in the position of having to defend yourself having made a bad decision, if the 'vast majority' of parents really are as swift to condemn as you seem to think.

I don't think leaving under 4 year olds alone whilst you're out wining and dining can be classified as a bad decision. This was not the first time they had done it either, I'd call it poor parenting.

There is a difference between a bad decision and poor parenting, and in my opinion I dont think you can classify consistantly leaving your kids home alone is poor parenting, not bad decisions.

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

There is a difference between a bad decision and poor parenting, and in my opinion I dont think you can classify consistantly leaving your kids home alone is poor parenting, not bad decisions.

I don't think there is anywhere near enough information about the McCann's family life and history in the public domain for you or anyone else to make such a judgement.