Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] - Page 472

Rchivist · 23-05-2008, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by pentode

Even Firefox is doing a Phorm... see http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05...ox_data_snoop/

What I intended asking was would VM actually tell us when to opt in or to opt out... or would they not bother. Just how would we know?

Dave

If they were to try and make the invitation legally, then they could either send you a customer service email, or put a message/popup that would alert the principal account holder, (and ONLY that person) - the adult principal account holder responsible for the contract with VM - while they were browsing the VM customer service portal, (not while you were merely browsing 3rd party web sites) and they would need to take care to make sure they had the right person (with a security question or two) before allowing you to click on any Webwise invitation button.

They would also need to give you a fair bit of information about Webwise, including the links to FIPR, ICO, Clayton, Hanff, etc. and allow you to look at it BEFORE you opt-IN, and that information would probably need to include the fact that Webwise was thought by many to be be illegal and that you could theoretically get prosecuted, and that you might find a lot of websites refused you access.

And if you did not see the webwise page or simply blocked it or closed it, you should remain opted out.

Any other way of inviting you to become a Webwise customer would be illegal according to what has been said here.

That's my reading of the situation - but I doubt whether the ISP's see it that way.

popper · 23-05-2008, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Jones

There seems to be some "unknown" activity of possibly 500 shares, but it doesn't show as a buy or a sell on ShareCrazy, iii, or ADVN - iii shows zero volume as do the others

Oh well - sit on hands till Tuesday...

whats that all about, i dont have membership?.
23/05/2008
09:07
FBB
Phorm (PHRM) - Google or Microsoft must be after it

Rchivist · 23-05-2008, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark777

This one shows one trade for today, but at 16:45. This is, I believe, after after the close.

http://www.lse.co.uk/ShareTrades.asp...re=phorm_reg_s

Perhaps it's simply that nobody wants to buy the things.

Oh I don't know - we could could make a small profit buying while they are low, and pass on the proceeds of any profits to Alex's fighting fund next time someone ramps it up a bit.

Dephormation · 23-05-2008, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark777

This one shows one trade for today, but at 16:45. This is, I believe, after after the close.

http://www.lse.co.uk/ShareTrades.asp...re=phorm_reg_s

Perhaps it's simply that nobody wants to buy the things.

ADVFN is showing that trade at 7:59.11, immediately before the market opened.

http://www.advfn.com/p.php?pid=qkquo...c=phrm&x=0&y=0

?

AlexanderHanff · 23-05-2008, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by r1ch

Maybe the problem is with SelfTrade - Google is showing movement for today.

Yeah that trade was at 16:45 though so it hadn't happened when the original comments were made here. It looks like a sell too given that they closed on 1325 (down again).

Alexander Hanff

popper · 23-05-2008, 17:34

btw that "Project Canoe." Advertising i mentioned a ways back, is still the talk of the cable industry, puts Neil's stance on the internet side of VM in perspective, and he's not mentioned this "Project Canoe." as yet, its coming to the UK no doubt at some point, the devils in the details OC...

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2308070,00.asp

AlexanderHanff · 23-05-2008, 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dephormation

ADVFN is showing that trade at 7:59.11, immediately before the market opened.

http://www.advfn.com/p.php?pid=qkquo...c=phrm&x=0&y=0

?

Naah that is just showing the last time the data was updated. ADVFN tend to be a bit slow updating that timestamp, I have noticed several times over the last week that it can take several hours for a trade to show on the timestamp update.

Alexander Hanff

Rchivist · 23-05-2008, 19:19

BT appear to have now fixed their bt.com search box, all the search result links now actually WORK, with one exception - results for the string "webwise" clicking on which produces a very basic browser "page not found" message.

Add to that the fact that BTYahoo! help pages return zero hits for the term "webwise" and we begin to see what Kent meant by the term "privacy revolution". The mission was to remove all public mention of Webwise from bt portals. The UNinformed customer who knows nothing about Webwise has no way (within the bt.com or BTYahoo network) of accessing information about Webwise from their ISP.

Helpful sort of attitude that - and of course things won't change at least till after the Bank Holiday so all that holiday surfing is less likely to discover what this Webwise stuff on BT is all about.#

Wonderful stuff this honesty and transparency - means you become invisible I suppose.

If the UNinformed customer knows how to do a google "site search" then they will find two hits- one for the BT webwise site, and one for a forum posting (but not the actual BT Beta forum thread that is devoted to Webwise)

any BT customers lurking here - you might like to use the BT contact us page to send in a complaint about that. Ask in all innocence why you can't get any info on Webwise from either BTYahoo help search box or bt.com search box.

bluecar1 · 23-05-2008, 19:24

silence from webwise help desk regarding the question i sent in early last night, so much for 24 hour response times

Dephormation · 23-05-2008, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Jones

BT appear to have now fixed their bt.com search box, all the search result links now actually WORK, with one exception - results for the string "webwise" clicking on which produces a very basic browser "page not found" message.

I did wonder earlier today if they'd finally pulled the plug, but apparently not. The web page has been seemingly moved from a standard html page, to a php page;

http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/index.html
becomes -->
http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/index.php

Only a PHP session cookie being set, and nothing unusual in the http requests.

23-05-2008, 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

Just a quick note re: FOI requests.

It is always better to ask only a single question in a request, because if the cost of answering the question exceeds Ã‚Â£350 they don't have to comply with the request.

Thanks Alexander. Good info as always. Hope your results are what you deserve.

On the point about 80/20, the two-hats Simon thing and Alex's role... My view is that we have to accept that there is a place for the middle man in these situations when technology makes possible things which have never been thought of, tried, done before etc The middle man here can earn a living and do the right thing (we wait for the PIA to see if we agree I know)

Alex's role has been to use his time and resources, his skills and developing knowledge to challenge the goals of Phorm, the ISPs and their Webwise labelled implementation - top marks in my view so far. I don't always agree with everything he has said but he presents argument logically and with evidential back-up. Let's not be divided and await the PIA

Hank

bluecar1 · 23-05-2008, 19:42

hmmm

C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC>ping www.webwise.bt.com

Pinging www.webwise.bt.com [207.44.186.90] with 32 bytes of data:

(Asked whois.arin.net:43 about +207.44.186.90)

OrgName: ThePlanet.com Internet Services Inc.
OrgID: TPCM
Address: 315 Capitol
Address: Suite 205
City: Houston
StateProv: TX
PostalCode: 77002
Country: US
ReferralServer: rwhois: //rwhois.theplanet.com: 4321
NetRange: 207.44.128.0 - 207.44.255.255
CIDR: 207.44.128.0/17
OriginAS: AS13749 AS13884 AS21844 AS30315
OriginAS: AS36420
NetName: NETBLK-THEPLANET-BLK-EV1-9
NetHandle: NET-207-44-128-0-1
Parent: NET-207-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Allocation
NameServer: NS1.EV1SERVERS.NET
NameServer: NS2.EV1SERVERS.NET
Comment:

i see BT's network extend to stateside again!!!!!

Dephormation · 23-05-2008, 20:00

But some stuff has changed; see this thread on badphorm.

BT have pulled some Javascript that was included by the page on 19 May (and contained refs to Virgin and Talk Talk).

---------- Post added at 20:00 ---------- Previous post was at 19:51 ----------

Nuggets from Netcraft;

www.webwise.bt.com
USA
Linux/Apache
Last change:23-May-2008
IP: 207.44.186.90 (ThePlanet.com Internet Services)

http://webwise.bt.com
UK
Linux/Apache/2.2.3 (FH)
Last change:23-May-2008
IP: 88.208.248.102 (live-servers.net)

SMHarman · 23-05-2008, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

Zero share movement today for Phorm...maybe something is going on...

Alexander Hanff

Holiday weekend in the US (Memorial Day) markets are usually apathetic on the Friday before and will be pretty stagnant on Monday as the US markets are closed.

Florence · 23-05-2008, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dephormation

But some stuff has changed; see this thread on badphorm.

BT have pulled some Javascript that was included by the page on 19 May (and contained refs to Virgin and Talk Talk).

---------- Post added at 20:00 ---------- Previous post was at 19:51 ----------

Nuggets from Netcraft;

www.webwise.bt.com
USA
Linux/Apache
Last change:23-May-2008
IP: 207.44.186.90 (ThePlanet.com Internet Services)

http://webwise.bt.com
UK
Linux/Apache/2.2.3 (FH)
Last change:23-May-2008
IP: 88.208.248.102 (live-servers.net)

Makes a mockery of none of our profiled information leaving the ISP network.. More words you cannot trust...