Unstoppable migration?

[papa smurf]

35 MILLION migrants heading to Europe, says Hungary as it builds second fence

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...s-second-fence

[Russ]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

So because of our geographic location we should not do our fair share ?

Please don't tell me you think 20000 over 5 years is reasonable we're almost as bad as the U.S.

And for those who were complaining about gulf states not assisting I'm just going to let you read this

https://www.saudiembassy.net/press-r...s09111501.aspx

You're putting words in my mouth and I won't waste any more of my time if you keep doing that.

To prevent you doing so I'll summarise: if someone wants to come here, they will follow correct immigration laws and procedures for doing so.

If they are desperate to come here as they have no other option for survival or safety then yes we (as per other EU members) should accept them, providing there is no clear evidence that they're a danger to the UK.

This is why I have sympathy yet little or no support for those in Calais. So far nobody has been able to demonstrate to me why anyone's life or safety is more at risk there than in the UK. As for our geographic location, that's irrelevant. I support the notion of each EU country agreeing to a number of refugees based on a number of factors such as wealth, resources, space etc.

When a refugee arrives in a safe country the authorities then decide where they go. I have no problem with the people requesting certain countries (due to family or qualifications which would benefit that country etc) and this could be taken in to account but given how they must be desperate for safety their choice should not be the final say - it's up to the EU to allocate.

[Osem]

Is taking in a million a fair share? What's fair about that to all the other millions left behind then? They'd be the truly desperate and helpless, the ones who had no money or means by which to escape.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Russ

You're putting words in my mouth and I won't waste any more of my time if you keep doing that.

To prevent you doing so I'll summarise: if someone wants to come here, they will follow correct immigration laws and procedures for doing so.

If they are desperate to come here as they have no other option for survival or safety then yes we (as per other EU members) should accept them, providing there is no clear evidence that they're a danger to the UK.

This is why I have sympathy yet little or no support for those in Calais. So far nobody has been able to demonstrate to me why anyone's life or safety is more at risk there than in the UK. As for our geographic location, that's irrelevant. I support the notion of each EU country agreeing to a number of refugees based on a number of factors such as wealth, resources, space etc.

When a refugee arrives in a safe country the authorities then decide where they go. I have no problem with the people requesting certain countries (due to family or qualifications which would benefit that country etc) and this could be taken in to account but given how they must be desperate for safety their choice should not be the final say - it's up to the EU to allocate.

We'll have to agree to disagree on me putting words in your mouth, from my perspective I asked two reasonable questions. Theres also no need to patronise

I'll ask you another question, in your opinion are the people in the camps in Calais all there purely for economic reasons?


Our geographic location is important as i think you (apologies if not the case) and a lot of others have implied that why are they trying to get the UK when there are a myriad of safe countries between the UK and the multitude of transit routes.

Lets face it, the numbers in Calais are insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Are you seriously expecting the countries that are currently processing these refugees to be able to maintain and keep up??

[Russ]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

We'll have to agree to disagree on me putting words in your mouth, from my perspective I asked two reasonable questions. Theres also no need to patronise

I will if you keep putting words in my mouth.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I'll ask you another question, in your opinion are the people in the camps in Calais all there purely for economic reasons?

I have no idea but I can't see how any are desperate unless they're residents of France and even then they'd legally have passage to us.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Our geographic location is important as i think you (apologies if not the case) and a lot of others have implied that why are they trying to get the UK when there are a myriad of safe countries between the UK and the multitude of transit routes.

As you say there are plenty of other safe countries so anyone ignoring or passing through them for another country is not desperate or in need.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Lets face it, the numbers in Calais are insignificant in the grand scheme of things

We need to keep up our resistance in Calais, anything less and suddenly word will go around that it's the new place to be.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Are you seriously expecting the countries that are currently processing these refugees to be able to maintain and keep up??

Absolutely, given that the alternative is utter chaos and anarchy.

[Osem]

It makes me laugh how some folks won't be happy until the UK has to endure even more problems with uncontrolled migration and failed immigration policy than we already do. They live in a country which has experienced massive population increases through migration and see huge chaos in places like Germany and Austria yet they still don't get it and want to bring even more of it here for some ridiculous reason. I guess it proves they're incapable of rational thought and impervious to reason. I wonder, whilst congratulating themselves on their humanitarianism, how many of these people have done a single significant practical thing to assist the migrants they say they're so keen to help come here. I find it astonishing that people want to perpetuate and exacerbate the chaos which is unfolding in Europe because allowing more in will only cause more to follow. Fact!

[heero_yuy]

Quite. And I bet they'll be the same people kicking up a fuss when they can't get doctors appointments becuase the surgery of full of ailing immigrants or dentists appointments because the surgery is full of immigrants getting their teeth fixed for free or their children are told that the social housing is all taken by the more deserving immigrants etc, etc.

The services in this country and its infrastructure are already at breaking point yet some people want to allow any number of immigrants to waltz in.

[Osem]

Absolutely, the sort of people who issue forth on behalf of migrants in Calais until their business or holiday trip of is cancelled due to migrant infiltration of the tunnel/ferry terminal or their route to work becomes a nightmare due to operation stack. At that point they whine loud and clear. It's pathetic.

How long, if at all, does anyone seriously think those who're banging on about taking in people will do so? What'll happen if they decide they can't live like that anymore or suddenly need their spare room(s) back? Can you imagine the frenzied backlash there'll be as soon as one of these hosts is harmed, robbed, raped or experiences some other serious problem with their guests? Honestly the naivety evident in what some people are saying is beyond belief and I do believe that some of it is politically motivated.

I heard one deluded woman on LBC this morning banging on about how she wants to take in migrants. When it was pointed out that we don't really have a clue who most of these people are she agreed there is a security risk but started blaming the lack of an effective vetting procedure going back years. She's right about that of course but how stupid is she therefore to want to take that sort of risk inviting unknown people into her own home? Yes they could be normal decent people but amongst them are everything from petty thieves to budding terrorists, rapists and murderers. There'll also be those who through no fault of their own will have serious psychological problems and could pose a serious risk to other people. The potential for massive problems is huge and would insurance cover such generous hosts for housing unknown people in their homes and any risks associated therewith. Of course, when the self appointed great and good decide they've had enough of hosting complete strangers it'll be the rest of us who pick up the tab in one way or another. I can imagine their calls for help as their misguided generosity backfires.

I don't think most of the people making such offers are at all serious about doing so. I reckon they range from the genuinely decent and sincere to the naïve, the usual bandwagon jumpers and those with political or other motives e.g. trying to change the UK's policies and even those who'd like to see the makeup of our society changed from within.

I ask those so keen to take in refugees why they've never felt so keen on taking in our own destitute and needy. I doubt many of them have ever even spared a coin to a beggar.

[nashville]

It maybe just a matter of time. Who knows

Health and safety laws will stop families taking in Syrian refugees

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/w...cle4563101.ece (behind paywall)

However, the Home Office says that accommodation must be restricted to properties that are safe, clean, secure and, crucially, self-contained. People are urged to contact their local council only if they have a spare second home, rather than a spare sofa.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Osem

It makes me laugh how some folks won't be happy until the UK has to endure even more problems with uncontrolled migration and failed immigration policy than we already do. They live in a country which has experienced massive population increases through migration and see huge chaos in places like Germany and Austria yet they still don't get it and want to bring even more of it here for some ridiculous reason. I guess it proves they're incapable of rational thought and impervious to reason. I wonder, whilst congratulating themselves on their humanitarianism, how many of these people have done a single significant practical thing to assist the migrants they say they're so keen to help come here. I find it astonishing that people want to perpetuate and exacerbate the chaos which is unfolding in Europe because allowing more in will only cause more to follow. Fact!

“A steady patriot of the world alone,
The friend of every country—but his own.”

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Health and safety laws will stop families taking in Syrian refugees

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/w...cle4563101.ece (behind paywall)

I believe (from one of the links I've posted IIRC) that the Germans have been experiencing serious problems due to their health, safety and planning regulations. Thought through? I think not...

Update:

It's here:-

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...a-1052546.html

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Osem

Absolutely, the sort of people who issue forth on behalf of migrants in Calais until their business or holiday trip of is cancelled due to migrant infiltration of the tunnel/ferry terminal or their route to work becomes a nightmare due to operation stack. At that point they whine loud and clear. It's pathetic.

How long, if at all, does anyone seriously think those who're banging on about taking in people will do so? What'll happen if they decide they can't live like that anymore or suddenly need their spare room(s) back? Can you imagine the frenzied backlash there'll be as soon as one of these hosts is harmed, robbed, raped or experiences some other serious problem with their guests? Honestly the naivety evident in what some people are saying is beyond belief and I do believe that some of it is politically motivated.

I heard one deluded woman on LBC this morning banging on about how she wants to take in migrants. When it was pointed out that we don't really have a clue who most of these people are she agreed there is a security risk but started blaming the lack of an effective vetting procedure going back years. She's right about that of course but how stupid is she therefore to want to take that sort of risk inviting unknown people into her own home? Yes they could be normal decent people but amongst them are everything from petty thieves to budding terrorists, rapists and murderers. There'll also be those who through no fault of their own will have serious psychological problems and could pose a serious risk to other people. The potential for massive problems is huge and would insurance cover such generous hosts for housing unknown people in their homes and any risks associated therewith. Of course, when the self appointed great and good decide they've had enough of hosting complete strangers it'll be the rest of us who pick up the tab in one way or another. I can imagine their calls for help as their misguided generosity backfires.

I don't think most of the people making such offers are at all serious about doing so. I reckon they range from the genuinely decent and sincere to the naïve, the usual bandwagon jumpers and those with political or other motives e.g. trying to change the UK's policies and even those who'd like to see the makeup of our society changed from within.

I ask those so keen to take in refugees why they've never felt so keen on taking in our own destitute and needy. I doubt many of them have ever even spared a coin to a beggar.

that kind of gesture doesn't have the same feel good factor you don't get the same warm fuzzy feeling and adoration from your face book contacts if you take in a tramp .

Originally Posted by Osem

It makes me laugh how some folks won't be happy until the UK has to endure even more problems with uncontrolled migration and failed immigration policy than we already do. They live in a country which has experienced massive population increases through migration and see huge chaos in places like Germany and Austria yet they still don't get it and want to bring even more of it here for some ridiculous reason. I guess it proves they're incapable of rational thought and impervious to reason. I wonder, whilst congratulating themselves on their humanitarianism, how many of these people have done a single significant practical thing to assist the migrants they say they're so keen to help come here. I find it astonishing that people want to perpetuate and exacerbate the chaos which is unfolding in Europe because allowing more in will only cause more to follow. Fact!

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Quite. And I bet they'll be the same people kicking up a fuss when they can't get doctors appointments becuase the surgery of full of ailing immigrants or dentists appointments because the surgery is full of immigrants getting their teeth fixed for free or their children are told that the social housing is all taken by the more deserving immigrants etc, etc.

The services in this country and its infrastructure are already at breaking point yet some people want to allow any number of immigrants to waltz in.

This is the equivalent of 'lefties' thinking people on the right hate the poor.

It might just be some of these people are conflicted about how best to deal with what is an increasingly becoming a crisis. They're not (necessarily) 'deluded' and are trying to think of a way to balance the concept of asylum and problems that can come with high levels of migration. Even some in UKIP, hardly a pro-immigration party, are suggesting increasing the numbers of asylum seekers we accept.

You don't have to reduce those who think differently from you to nasty caricatures with malevolent or deluded motivations. Especially if you then complain if they then do the same by calling people who share your views as racist or heartless. It helps no one.

[techguyone]

I think deluded is a perfectly accurate term to use for many of these people, including a few on here.

It's interesting watching the southern parts of the EU change tact as reality strikes, by the time the horde get closer, it'll be really really obvious even to our beloved luvvie left what is and what isn't real.

Lets watch time take its course over the next few weeks and see what reality is really like...