[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

Originally Posted by ntluser

They will probably increase income tax but we will also have money from not having to pay our massive contribution to the EU.t.

VAT brings in roughly £100 Billion in income a year. The EU contribution is about £8.5 billion (after rebates).

That income tax is going to have to go up a fair bit.

Anyway this 'no more VAT' is a new one. Where did that come from?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Exacty! I can understand why the leaders of the EU want us to stay in, that's obvious. What's a mystery to me is why so many of our politicians want us to stay in?!:confused.

I think the big reason they want us to stay other than our cash contributions is because it might well start a trend and collapse the whole thing. It is a bit of mystery why so many of our politicians want to stay in, might be a bit to easy to say all they're worried about is future career prospects at the expense of the rest of us and the country

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by Damien

VAT brings in roughly £100 Billion in income a year. The EU contribution is about £8.5 billion (after rebates).

That income tax is going to have to go up a fair bit.

Anyway this 'no more VAT' is a new one. Where did that come from?

As far as I know goods bought from the EU by non EU members are not liable to VAT if the goods are totally for use outside the EU.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

It is a bit of mystery why so many of our politicians want to stay in, might be a bit to easy to say all they're worried about is future career prospects at the expense of the rest of us and the country

Maybe they genuinely think there are economic advantages to being the EU?

[Kymmy]

Originally Posted by ntluser

As far as I know goods bought from the EU by non EU members are not liable to VAT if the goods are totally for use outside the EU.

Yet they are liable then for vat/sales tax within the country of the non-eu member. You pay the tax within the EU if a member or outside if not a member unless the goods are zero rated.

Import duty is the thing which will be charged for goods bought from the EU if we leave. Mind you it will go to our government as well as the VAT going to the UK instead of the source country.

---------- Post added at 17:04 ---------- Previous post was at 16:53 ----------

One important question as to these claims of renegotiating import\export duties is what's likely to be the leaving timeline? I expect many years to leave fully and not just a short time after a leave vote. If a short time then a lot of the greater costs may come to fruition for a limited time but if a long time then although it will give more time to renegotiate it may also create more issues with things like immigration. I wonder if we'll have an inrush whilst we're still members with people trying to beat the deadline?

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Damien

Because it's a difficult question with many upsides/downsides?

No it isn't. It's a question of the survival of the UK as an independent sovereign nation.

---------- Post added at 17:48 ---------- Previous post was at 17:44 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

It is a bit of mystery why so many of our politicians want to stay in, might be a bit to easy to say all they're worried about is future career prospects at the expense of the rest of us and the country

If that's the reason then they are traitors.

[techguyone]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I think the big reason they want us to stay other than our cash contributions is because it might well start a trend and collapse the whole thing.

This.

Has crossed my mind once or twice, it has to be a concern for the PTB in Europe, especially as it's all going to **** anyway with half of the middle East on their way.

[Osem]

I reckon that the UK being in the EU has proved to have all the financial disadvantages of an unhappy marriage and acrimonious divorce without even the relief at no longer having to put up with the unreasonable ex...

Originally Posted by Ramrod

No it isn't. It's a question of the survival of the UK as an independent sovereign nation.

---------- Post added at 17:48 ---------- Previous post was at 17:44 ----------

If that's the reason then they are traitors.

Well that's it isn't? You are so convinced you're right that you can't fathom how anyone else can think differently, that would be why you can't understand them.

From today's Times.

A similar article as that FT one in The Times today looking at the possible consequences of Brexit:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/p...cle4697926.ece

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Damien

Well that's it isn't? You are so convinced you're right that you can't fathom how anyone else can think differently, that would be why you can't understand them.

Simply because on this topic it's as simple as night follows day.
In other words, if we vote to stay in, we will get ever closer political union with the EU until we are eventually completely governed by it.
Our political class must be aware of this fact..... unless they are idiots.
If they are aware of it and still support staying in, they are traitors, imo.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Simply because on this topic it's as simple as night follows day.
In other words, if we vote to stay in, we will get ever closer political union with the EU until we are eventually completely governed by it.
Our political class must be aware of this fact..... unless they are idiots.
If they are aware of it and still support staying in, they are traitors, imo.

Not strictly true, unless something changes. From the document.

Section C: Sovereignty
1. It is recognised that the United Kingdom, in the light of the specific situation it has under the Treaties, is not committed to further political integration into the European Union. The substance of this will be incorporated into the Treaties at the time of their next revision in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Treaties and the respective constitutional requirements of the Member States, so as to make it clear that the references to ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom.

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Simply because on this topic it's as simple as night follows day.
In other words, if we vote to stay in, we will get ever closer political union with the EU until we are eventually completely governed by it.
Our political class must be aware of this fact..... unless they are idiots.
If they are aware of it and still support staying in, they are traitors, imo.

I would say they're not convinced that ever closer political union would happen or that we couldn't resist it if it did. Meanwhile there are economic considerations which, rather than the issue of sovereignty, is what's driving their opinion.

I mean if the economic does take a hit then the politicians won't be let off on the understanding we at least have left the European Union.

[Osem]

IMHO, the prospect of ever closer union has never seemed more distant with so many countries making up the rules as they go along and passing the buck their neighbours in one way or another whether it be migrants or austerity. The Greek crisis hasn't gone away and the migration crisis hasn't either. To be honest I'm less concerned about ever closer union than I have been for a long time. I more worried about the EU falling apart acrimoniously as a result of numerous scores which are going to have to be settled sooner or later. I'm also concerned about the inability or unwillingness of the Eurocrats to see what's in front of their noses and act accordingly. The EU is the Titanic heading towards that iceberg with a committee incapable of agreement about which way to turn at the helm.