Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Tarquin L-Smythe]

Originally Posted by Florence

Both clicks I had no cdr on first one and cdr logged on second if you get cdr logged on both I would be worried and check for cookies this could be that BT are again running tests without informed consent would be good if we can catch them actually doing it live now...

Im a BT subscriber and got "cdr logged" on both clicks 'so what next?
TL-S

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Tarquin L-Smythe

Im a BT subscriber and got "cdr logged" on both clicks 'so what next?
TL-S

I got the no because I am with an ISP not signed upto phorm or in talks with phorm so not a risk. Keep clicking the links so to help him perfect the script to trap phorm and win them at their own game charging for clicks.

[Dephormation]

Originally Posted by Tarquin L-Smythe

Im a BT subscriber and got "cdr logged" on both clicks 'so what next?
TL-S

Oops just accidentally deleted my own rather longer post.

To repeat in a nutshell, what next?

Either

1) No come back for you. Longer term higher BT subs, or perhaps BT block high value sites.

or

2) A very embarrassing invoice from BT stating that they have been asked to pay costs amounting to £2.5M as a result of your 'anonymous' surfing, and listing the sites and associated charges you have incurred.

Because they told you that your Phorm surfing was legal and anonymous, I guess you won't receive that invoice.

[wecpc]

I see that in the latest PC PRO magazine (the early July edition) on page 17, there is another Anti-PHORM article, quoting Dr Richard Clayton. That will spread the Anti PHORM/WEBWISE coverage a little further with their readership.

Colin

[mark777]

Originally Posted by Dephormation

Oops just accidentally deleted my own rather longer post.

To repeat in a nutshell, what next?

Either

1) No come back for you. Longer term higher BT subs, or perhaps BT block high value sites.

or

2) A very embarrassing invoice from BT stating that they have been asked to pay costs amounting to £2.5M as a result of your 'anonymous' surfing, and listing the sites and associated charges you have incurred.

Because they told you that your Phorm surfing was legal and anonymous, I guess you won't receive that invoice.

Might be best to start small at first though. I think the limit for the small claims court is £5k.

[popper]

Originally Posted by Dephormation

Oh no. I'm not that evil.

I would ensure the ISP gave me explicit consent... ISPs will indicate their explicit consent to be charged for commercial exploitation by Phorging a UID cookie in my domain.

As for AIM, joy to say the mechanism for generating this revenue is so simple anyone could do it. In a nutshell; force leaked UID cookie, log commercial exploitation event, invoice ISP for page impression royalties and then... either draw income from factor (and allow them to chase bad debt on your behalf) or sue ISP in small claims court for royalties once a month.

Anyone with a relatively basic web site hosting package would be able to do it (and never have to show an advert). Or you could use the expected income to upgrade your hosting package if necessary.

No legal fees, you can represent yourself in small claims.



Pete.

talking about "commercial exploitation" i think it would be a very good thing to include in any future system the badphorm thread is talking about, some extra billing expansion and growth to allow for the inclusion of the mobile networks data plans for "commercial exploitation " of this same data.

the UKs mobile networks generate massive profits from chargeing per Mbit, again profiteering off the backs of the free content peoples work,they too need to be potentially included in this evolving system in the future.

with WiMax just around the corner, the ElReg reported Orange Mobile selling/moving into the mobile Phorm like system, and the expectation from the UK networks to move over in a very big way to the Wimax data Mb model as their largest ever cashcow, both data pimping and wholesale Megabit charging, its only a matter of time before we might need to include this talked about billing option to reclaim our cash generators back, or put a stop to the "commercial exploitation " practice and force them to move over to a "reasonable" real fixed fee for a fair amount of data model.

pass this comment to the BP thread if you like as im not reged there (dont like being forced to register anywere just to make the odd comment now and then...).

---------- Post added at 23:51 ---------- Previous post was at 23:33 ----------

Originally Posted by mark777

Might be best to start small at first though. I think the limit for the small claims court is £5k.

it is, iv said for a long time now though, if as happened with the banks and the unlawful charges, if enough small claims were to find their way into the court system for long enough to cause a backlog, then you will find the county courts wanting to move the strongest cases to the higher courts, and so getting real industry wide action and justice in new and updated "commercial exploitation" rulings in the small users/business favour perhaps.

in affect, you need to send the bill, then a letter before action, and fill in an N1 form from the local small claims county court ( send a copy of it unsigned to show them your serious and have it ready lol) , or you can do it online from the small claim moneyclaim HMC service.

[Dephormation]

Originally Posted by mark777

Might be best to start small at first though. I think the limit for the small claims court is £5k.

See here's the fun bit.

That invoice is the sum of *all* the web sites you ever visit over the course of say 6 months sending hundreds even thousands of invoices to BT.

At £10, £100, £1000 per page the money would add up quickly too if you frequent the 'wrong' sites.

But never fear, the cashflow problem is all BT's.

You're anonymous, aren't you? And Webwise is 'free'.

No one knows your browsing history. So you couldn't possibly get an itemised invoice linked to your UID.

BT assured you in writing that would be impossible.

Pete

[Ice Fyre]

Hi im new here, and Ive only just found out all the gory details about phorm I cant believe the big isp's are going through with this! More people need to know about this, there should be a campaign like firefox did awhile back, where people had there banner everywhere and "get firefox" as a sig!

Hi Ice Fyre,

Well, so far, the big isp's are not going through with this. Every day that passes that they don't start a trial is one more day we've won.

Failure by the ISP's to start a trial can only mean that they have been unable to rework Phorm's business model to an use an opt-in that conforms with the law.

To be honest, with an opt-in requiring explicit consent the ISP's are going to make next to nothing from the deal - certainly not enough to cover the amount of people who will migrate away beause they have deployed it!

[mark777]

Originally Posted by Ice Fyre

Hi im new here, and Ive only just found out all the gory details about phorm I cant believe the big isp's are going through with this! More people need to know about this, there should be a campaign like firefox did awhile back, where people had there banner everywhere and "get firefox" as a sig!

Ice Fyre.

You have hit the nail on the head. Many more people need to know about this.

---------- Post added at 02:54 ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 ----------

Originally Posted by Dephormation

See here's the fun bit.

That invoice is the sum of *all* the web sites you ever visit over the course of say 6 months sending hundreds even thousands of invoices to BT.

At £10, £100, £1000 per page the money would add up quickly too if you frequent the 'wrong' sites.

But never fear, the cashflow problem is all BT's.

You're anonymous, aren't you? And Webwise is 'free'.

No one knows your browsing history. So you couldn't possibly get an itemised invoice linked to your UID.

BT assured you in writing that would be impossible.

Pete

But Pete, I'm itching to invoice the 3 stooges for my intellectual property. So much so that i'll set up a web site to do it.

Only thing is, I will need to keep the invoice down because I will pursue it in the small claims court. Nice and easy and doesn't cost very much.

Cost's the ISP's plenty though to defend.

[Dephormation]

Originally Posted by mark777

But Pete, I'm itching to invoice the 3 stooges for my intellectual property. So much so that i'll set up a web site to do it.

Only thing is, I will need to keep the invoice down because I will pursue it in the small claims court. Nice and easy and doesn't cost very much.

Cost's the ISP's plenty though to defend.

You've got it..!

You can claim as much or as little as you like. And stay within the limits of the small claims court (initially).

Long term we've been chatting over on badphorm about a community billing system (like Peforming Rights)... creative people join and get a royalty cheque every month.

If you run a big site, eg cable forum, with thousands and thousands of hits a day... you need to talk to a proper lawyer because you could be due a very very big cheque.



Pete.

---------- Post added at 08:45 ---------- Previous post was at 08:01 ----------

One last push please, especially welcome clicks from talktalk users... haven't had any so far (or the script needs a twiddle). If you've clicked already, please click again, a few times for good measure...

http://www.dephormation.org.uk:8080/..._cdr/usage.php
http://www.dephormation.org.uk:8080/...ge.php?debug=y

To recap, this page demonstrates the ability to log royalty billing information for Phorming ISPs. The debug link sets a temporary Phormalike UID cookie (won't opt you into Phorm or anything nasty like that, don't worry) used to mimic Phormed users.

No invoices will follow.

I plan to provide public code shortly. Then retire to the Bahamas on the income from my web site (at £100/page impression for unauthorised commercial copyright violation).

many thanks.
Pete

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Ice Fyre

Hi im new here, and Ive only just found out all the gory details about phorm I cant believe the big isp's are going through with this! More people need to know about this, there should be a campaign like firefox did awhile back, where people had there banner everywhere and "get firefox" as a sig!

There are banners somewhere sure popper did some I had one on ISPreview but it suddenly vanished so I presume the admin removed the link leaving just badform link.

they were posted earlier in this thread but it is soo long it could take weeks to sind.

to cableforum

[wecpc]

Originally Posted by Ice Fyre
"Hi im new here, and Ive only just found out all the gory details about phorm I cant believe the big isp's are going through with this! More people need to know about this, there should be a campaign like firefox did awhile back, where people had there banner everywhere and "get firefox" as a sig!"

Here is a link to some banners available on Badphorm.

http://www.badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugi...wtopic.php?384

and

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by mark777

But Pete, I'm itching to invoice the 3 stooges for my intellectual property. So much so that i'll set up a web site to do it.

Only thing is, I will need to keep the invoice down because I will pursue it in the small claims court. Nice and easy and doesn't cost very much.

Cost's the ISP's plenty though to defend.

Fully agree that it might be a good idea to initially hit them with just a 'token' charge to keep the court fees down.
The costs of pursuing a claim, even through the Money Claim Online service, are not peanuts (unless you're receiving certain benefits).

[OF1975]

Slightly off topic here but have a read of this then imagine it 10 years down the line combined with a function-creep heavy phorm:

"Ofcom has outlined a wide range of advances and innovations for wireless devices over the next 10 to 20 years, including "in-body networks" to help doctors monitor patients."

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/22...es-vision-life

Just imagine these "in-body networks" combined with Phorm 10 or 15 years down the line. You are surfing the net one day and your blood pressure is high and the implants pick up on it and transmit it somehow to the phorm servers and up come adverts for blood pressure medication....

Tin foil hat? Yes quite possibly but it does open up the possibilities.