Britain outside the EU

[Carth]

Weren't a lot of knowledgeable folks (experts lol) saying we needed these low-skilled immigrants to do the jobs our own low skilled lot wouldn't (or couldn't afford) to do?

I definitely remember much wailing and moaning because flowers and fruit weren't getting picked.

Originally Posted by Carth

Weren't a lot of knowledgeable folks (experts lol) saying we needed these low-skilled immigrants to do the jobs our own low skilled lot wouldn't (or couldn't afford) to do?

I definitely remember much wailing and moaning because flowers and fruit weren't getting picked.

Before Brexit, the picking et al was done by EU citizens who (mostly) were seasonal or went home after a few years, having earned enough (you know, like the Geordie builders did in "Auf Weidersehn, Pet").

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Before Brexit, the picking et al was done by EU citizens who (mostly) were seasonal or went home after a few years, having earned enough (you know, like the Geordie builders did in "Auf Weidersehn, Pet").

But why weren't those Europeans picking fruit etc in their own country?

And if that was because there had already been a full picking job uptake in their countries, then perhaps now, there is huge unemployment in those countries; or what?

And, what happened in the UK to the suspension of the dole money if you didn't take an available job brokered by the Job Centre?

This ought to be an easy fix. Rejoining the EU solves no structural problem in the UK. Fix those first then our options can be considered without undue noise.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Before Brexit, the picking et al was done by EU citizens who (mostly) were seasonal or went home after a few years, having earned enough (you know, like the Geordie builders did in "Auf Weidersehn, Pet").

I remember when I was just a young whippersnapper there were 'gangs' of women and kids that used to be bussed out to farms.
We spent many happy(ish) hours picking stuff (strawberries were good lol) for a few shillings in our pockets.
It all seemed to die off, and I'm not sure if the Gov. had a hand in it, possibly not liking people earning a few bob without being taxed or kicking the farmers for some kind of 'underhand' employment issues

I also remember working at places where students would arrive for a few months to do some menial work (to help pay off their loans probably). I think that stopped when 'zero contract' hours appeared and Agencies started breeding like rabbits everywhere.

[Sephiroth]

I remember the days when I and some of my mates got holiday jobs at the Borough of Willesden as road sweepers. I even got promoted to house clearing truck driver's mate.

I once deputised for "Percy" who had the treasured High Road pitch; that was a m oney tree with generous shopkeepers anxious to dispose of stuff. Tips were shared, of course, with the other road sweepers.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Carth

I remember when I was just a young whippersnapper there were 'gangs' of women and kids that used to be bussed out to farms.
We spent many happy(ish) hours picking stuff (strawberries were good lol) for a few shillings in our pockets.
It all seemed to die off, and I'm not sure if the Gov. had a hand in it, possibly not liking people earning a few bob without being taxed or kicking the farmers for some kind of 'underhand' employment issues

I also remember working at places where students would arrive for a few months to do some menial work (to help pay off their loans probably). I think that stopped when 'zero contract' hours appeared and Agencies started breeding like rabbits everywhere.

i did it when i was 14 picked strawberry's for cash,no tax involved,maybe that's the problem the gov wants a share of everything.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

i did it when i was 14 picked strawberry's for cash,no tax involved,maybe that's the problem the gov wants a share of everything.

Turning a blind eye to that and wider would so unlock the economy. Again, no need for the EU.

Ah, the promised "sunlit uplands" of Brexit benefits - child labour and unregulated cash-in-hand casual labour.


What next - the Workhouse and getting those agile under-10s up the chimney?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Turning a blind eye to that and wider would so unlock the economy. Again, no need for the EU.

A few children working on farms in the summer won't unlock the economy by any stretch of the imagination.

Farmers now charge you to pick strawbeŕries - 'pick your own'. It's even cheaper than your unregulated child labour policy!

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Ah, the promised "sunlit uplands" of Brexit benefits - child labour and unregulated cash-in-hand casual labour.


What next - the Workhouse and getting those agile under-10s up the chimney?

The "unregulated cash-in-hand casual labour" was a way to earn a few extra quid to supplement the family income - and sort of taught kids that if you worked harder you got paid more.

As for kids up chimneys, nowadays those under 10s will be going up onto roofs to clean solar panels

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Carth

As for kids up chimneys, nowadays those under 10s will be going up onto roofs to clean solar panels

I must admit, I was wondering what that Brexit term 'Sunlit uplands' meant!

[Sephiroth]

When I voted for Brexit, "sunlit uplands" never crossed my mind. More like "perfidious Irish", "perfidious Macron", "hegemony", etc.

My decision was marginal, though - because I supported freedom of movement, the single market and the customs union. However, their moves to stop our common sense vetoes by trying to move decisions to qualified majority did it for me, along with "ever closer union". The EU had got to the right resting place but wanted it all to be decided by Brussels - a step too far.

[Carth]

When the question/topic of rejoining crops up I ask myself a few questions:

Would it improve the NHS/general health system.
Would it improve the education system.
Would it reduce unemployment by a significant amount.
Would it lower my energy bills.
Would it create more new build affordable homes.
Would it reduce waste and pollution by water companies.
Would it greatly reduce the amount of potholes in the road network.
Would it reduce 'grass roots' crime - (burglary, theft, assaults, mindless vandalism etc).

I believe the answer would be no, so what's the point.

Of course other people have a list of their own 'needs and desires'

Originally Posted by Carth

When the question/topic of rejoining crops up I ask myself a few questions:

Would it improve the NHS/general health system.
Would it improve the education system.
Would it reduce unemployment by a significant amount.
Would it lower my energy bills.
Would it create more new build affordable homes.
Would it reduce waste and pollution by water companies.
Would it greatly reduce the amount of potholes in the road network.
Would it reduce 'grass roots' crime - (burglary, theft, assaults, mindless vandalism etc).

I believe the answer would be no, so what's the point.

Of course other people have a list of their own 'needs and desires'

Brexit didn't do any of those things, but you still seem keen on it...

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Brexit didn't do any of those things, but you still seem keen on it...

Government incompetence is the reason for non-accomplishment.

Rejoining the EU would not make any improvement on that.

Your riposte does nothing to justify rejoining.