01-07-2021, 13:45
|
#6166
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,921
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
It's unfair to use that as a comparison point for a virus we've only had a year and a half to work on and that can spread without the host having symptoms.
|
I'm not comparing diseases. I'm using it as an example of "overwhelming success". I can't think of many others. Maybe SARS-Cov-1, where we don't have a vaccine but was eradicated entirely by social distancing.
|
|
|
01-07-2021, 13:57
|
#6167
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,175
|
Re: Coronavirus
Just received some Rapid Antigen tests in case I need them. Are these lateral flow tests?
Ironically, there's a small leaflet in them that says they were made in China.
|
|
|
01-07-2021, 13:57
|
#6168
|
laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,251
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
My kids, "may" get infected...but the evidence is overwhelming that they are unlikely to get a severe illness, if they get ill at all. I've been double jabbed so has their mother, grandmother and pretty much everyone else I know.
So.....what's the issue?
It doesn't give ages, and I've read the report and it does not separate out the ages of the Individuals
What it does say is
There is nothing to suggest healthy unvaccinated children are at any increased risk of severe illness. Happy to read any report/paper that does say that.
|
https://www.england.nhs.uk/2021/06/n...are-expansion/
https://www.itv.com/news/2021-06-07/...ovid-every-day in
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
|
|
|
01-07-2021, 14:06
|
#6169
|
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 37,076
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderplant
I'm not comparing diseases. I'm using it as an example of "overwhelming success". I can't think of many others. Maybe SARS-Cov-1, where we don't have a vaccine but was eradicated entirely by social distancing.
|
Success is measured by the attainment of targets. Smallpox was eradicated; that was the aim. In that instance the aim was absolute so the measure of success is arguably binary. If you set out to eradicate something you either succeed or you don’t.
This year the aim has been to deliver an effective vaccine to enough people, with enough speed, to break an epidemic and the pressure it has placed on our health service. I am not aware of anyone inside or outside of government who has made any serious suggestion that the present vaccination programme could, or would, eradicate covid.
Given that we have empirical data showing how fast a covid vaccination programme can reasonably be conducted (as the whole world is doing it), including ample data for how our peer group is performing, and increasing evidence that the link between infection and serious illness has been broken, “overwhelming success” is not an unreasonable conclusion and “reasonably successful” looks precisely like what it is - sour grapes from someone who is hard-wired to detest anything achieved by the British state.
|
|
|
01-07-2021, 14:18
|
#6170
|
Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,277
|
Re: Coronavirus
If you want to highlight how successful it's been we're 2nd only to Israel in fully vaccinated people per capita: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
Recently overtaking the United States who've also had a fantastic rollout in recent months.
|
|
|
01-07-2021, 14:59
|
#6171
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: #Plagueisland
Age: 53
Services: VM VIP Pack
Posts: 1,677
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter
Just received some Rapid Antigen tests in case I need them. Are these lateral flow tests?
Ironically, there's a small leaflet in them that says they were made in China.
|
They are indeed the famous Lateral Flow Tests. Very easy to use to be honest. We get through loads in our house as my kids do tests for school and my wife and I have done a few for work reasons.
These kits were designed by Innova They are made for the NHS by Xiamen Biotime in China which is fun! Even more fun is that Xiamen Biotimes webiste is blocked by my works web filtering software as it thinks that this is a gambling site
|
|
|
01-07-2021, 15:41
|
#6172
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,175
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx
They are indeed the famous Lateral Flow Tests. Very easy to use to be honest. We get through loads in our house as my kids do tests for school and my wife and I have done a few for work reasons.
These kits were designed by Innova They are made for the NHS by Xiamen Biotime in China which is fun! Even more fun is that Xiamen Biotimes webiste is blocked by my works web filtering software as it thinks that this is a gambling site
|
Thanks for confirming
The conspiracy theorists will probably say that China introduced Covid in order to sell us these. Whilst I think that there is a good chance that China are responsible for this virus coming from a laboratory, I doubt it was done on purpose. They just don't want to admit it to save face & paying out a hell of a lot of compensation.
|
|
|
01-07-2021, 15:52
|
#6173
|
Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,496
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
This is because you wilfully define success so as to ensure it’s unattainable. Anything to shore up your evil Tory/Westminster/incompetence worldview.
|
I mean that second sentence is pretty much an evidence led worldview. Nobody else is planning to infect millions of school kids without mitigations.
Overwhelming success is attainable if they want to take the hard choices. Reasonable success will hopefully work and we won’t go into another lockdown in winter.
|
|
|
01-07-2021, 16:07
|
#6174
|
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 37,076
|
Re: Coronavirus
They’re no more “planning to infect” anyone with covid than they plan to infect anyone with chicken pox, a common childhood illness from which I almost died (the virus caused secondary encephalitis, necessitating a prolonged hospital stay and several months off school), yet I still understand the public health rationale for not vaccinating against it.
Your choice of words does however ably demonstrate why I characterise your viewpoint the way I do. It’s almost comically absurd.
|
|
|
01-07-2021, 16:15
|
#6175
|
Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,496
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
They’re no more “planning to infect” anyone with covid than they plan to infect anyone with chicken pox, a common childhood illness from which I almost died (the virus caused secondary encephalitis, necessitating a prolonged hospital stay and several months off school), yet I still understand the public health rationale for not vaccinating against it.
Your choice of words does however ably demonstrate why I characterise your viewpoint the way I do. It’s almost comically absurd.
|
I really don’t think that any reasonably neutral person would agree with you to be honest.
I don’t really consider the chicken pox analogy comparable. In any way, shape or form. If children become a reservoir for a further new variant which pushes the efficacy of the Oxford vaccine even lower with grave consequences for health and the economy then it will have been completely avoidable. And you’d still defend them at all costs.
|
|
|
01-07-2021, 16:39
|
#6176
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: #Plagueisland
Age: 53
Services: VM VIP Pack
Posts: 1,677
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter
Thanks for confirming ��
The conspiracy theorists will probably say that China introduced Covid in order to sell us these. Whilst I think that there is a good chance that China are responsible for this virus coming from a laboratory, I doubt it was done on purpose. They just don't want to admit it to save face & paying out a hell of a lot of compensation.
|
In terms of likelihood, the virus being engineered is very unlikely. If it was, then Chinese scientists would be world stars in virus engineering and would also be world stars in vaccine development.
Could it have leaked? Possibly, it's happened before in the UK with Foot and Mouth. However, it would still be unlikely - if any one knows how to contain viruses, it would be a Virology Institute. Coronaviruses, especially unknown ones would be handled in a BSL-3 lab which is pretty tight.
My thoughts - it's just one of those things. SARS-COV2 came from an area where novel Coronaviruses pop up all the time
|
|
|
01-07-2021, 17:01
|
#6177
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,175
|
Re: Coronavirus
Apparently, we are going to get a flu jab in one arm & a covid booster in the other this year.
|
|
|
01-07-2021, 17:01
|
#6178
|
Sulking in the Corner
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
Services: 1 Gbps; Hub 4 MM; ASUS RT-AX88U; Ultimate VOLT. BT Infinity2; Devolo 1200AV
Posts: 11,955
|
Re: Coronavirus
What if some clever Chinese boffin thought that messing around with spikes could increase virulence of a coronavirus?
It's unlikely that mass death would be their objective - for economic reasons. But disruption of non-Chinese economies could be calculated as desirable to their political aims.
__________________
Seph.
My advice is at your risk.
|
|
|
01-07-2021, 17:20
|
#6179
|
laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,251
|
Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
What if some clever Chinese boffin thought that messing around with spikes could increase virulence of a coronavirus?
It's unlikely that mass death would be their objective - for economic reasons. But disruption of non-Chinese economies could be calculated as desirable to their political aims.
|
Not sure about that - China is dependent on the rest of the world buying the goods they produce; disrupting that is sub-optimal for their economy.
https://santandertrade.com/en/portal...ade-in-figures
Quote:
China has become the world's largest exporter and ranks second among the world’s largest importers. Despite its strict policies, the country is fairly open to foreign trade, which represented 35.7% of its GDP in 2019 (World Bank, 2020)
|
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
|
|
|
01-07-2021, 17:46
|
#6180
|
Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,277
|
Re: Coronavirus
I don't think there is much logic for China to have intentionally released it.
I do think there is coherent logic that they were researching coronaviruses and it somehow leaked, in that scenario it makes sense to cover it up obviously.
That said some of the arguments seem to mix up cause and effect. I.E People find it a remarkable coincidence that it just happens that a lab studying coronaviruses is in the city in which COVID-19 started. Apparently, this region of China is a hotbed of coronaviruses so it would make sense both a new variant of the virus and a lab studying them would be there.
Wuhan is also a city of 11 million people so there is plenty of reason that a new virus would emerge from such a city and not that much of a concidence it has scientific institutions there. It's not as if this is Oxford University and a virus family they're studying just happens to emerge from Oxford.
Last edited by Damien; 01-07-2021 at 17:50.
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 8 (0 members and 8 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:50.
|