President Trump 2.0

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Musk is dangerous.

How so?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Here's the thing, I don't like Trump, I don't think he'll make a good president some of his polices don't resonate with me.

BUT the line I've bolded above is EXACTLY why IMHO KH lost. Trump had policies, you might not like them, but they were liked enough by the voters for him to make inroads into the democratic vote share.

But they are not as you & I might define policies. They were populist soundbites designed to appeal to the people he needed to get/keep onboard. He could not articulate how he would implement them because firstly, he is not capable and secondly, they are not able to be implemented as announced.

Take the "Deport Illegal Migrants" for example. Is he going to gut the cheap labour force in agriculture, industry, etc. If he does, prices will rise as Trump voters would not do those jobs for that pay. Will he make US-born children of migrants illegal - he certainly has discussed this.

Take the "Tariffs" for example. These would lead to inflation as importers pass on the cost to the consumer. They would also harm the USA's erstwhile allies in Europe.

The list goes on. He basically pandered, as Populists do, to the base instincts of the voters: he preyed on their insecurities of money, race, religion, etc. His whole campaign was founded on cruelty & hate and USA will be poorer, in all senses, for it.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by ianch99

But they are not as you & I might define policies. They were populist soundbites designed to appeal to the people he needed to get/keep onboard. He could not articulate how he would implement them because firstly, he is not capable and secondly, they are not able to be implemented as announced.

Take the "Deport Illegal Migrants" for example. Is he going to gut the cheap labour force in agriculture, industry, etc. If he does, prices will rise as Trump voters would not do those jobs for that pay. Will he make US-born children of migrants illegal - he certainly has discussed this.

Take the "Tariffs" for example. These would lead to inflation as importers pass on the cost to the consumer. They would also harm the USA's erstwhile allies in Europe.

The list goes on. He basically pandered, as Populists do, to the base instincts of the voters: he preyed on their insecurities of money, race, religion, etc. His whole campaign was founded on cruelty & hate and USA will be poorer, in all senses, for it.

What you and i define as policy is irrelvant to the discussion, they were Trumps policies and enough of the electorate thought they made sense and were worth voting for.

Which leadds me to two potential conclusions either 1. The American population en masse are a bunch of gibbering idtios (and i don't believe this to be the case) or 2. KH was that BAD she wasn't able to get her message across to the voters (more than likely the case)

She also didn't offer enough of a difference from Biden, who many Americans blame solely (rightly or wrongly) for the past four years. and how could she? when Biden was/is her boss?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Ah, so you don't mind then. I am surprised but I guess people change. The level of influence Musk will have will be immense and so will his rewards.

It is the old argument "well they are all like that so it does not matter" - well in this case it does because Musk is dangerous. He is not like the run of the mill DC lobbyists which you seem to equate him to.

I absolutely do mind. However I don’t know why you’d expect the average person (voters) to ignore what they can see with their own eyes.

Similarly you brought nepotism into the Trump conversation earlier - I’m sure of course that Hunter Biden or Nancy Pelosi’s children haven’t benefitted in careers they are unsuited for because of who they are and parental connections.

---------- Post added at 12:12 ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

But they are not as you & I might define policies. They were populist soundbites designed to appeal to the people he needed to get/keep onboard. He could not articulate how he would implement them because firstly, he is not capable and secondly, they are not able to be implemented as announced.

Take the "Deport Illegal Migrants" for example. Is he going to gut the cheap labour force in agriculture, industry, etc. If he does, prices will rise as Trump voters would not do those jobs for that pay. Will he make US-born children of migrants illegal - he certainly has discussed this.

Take the "Tariffs" for example. These would lead to inflation as importers pass on the cost to the consumer. They would also harm the USA's erstwhile allies in Europe.

The list goes on. He basically pandered, as Populists do, to the base instincts of the voters: he preyed on their insecurities of money, race, religion, etc. His whole campaign was founded on cruelty & hate and USA will be poorer, in all senses, for it.

How he does them (or even if he does them) is irrelevant. Just as it is with everyone before him. He has a clear mandate from the ballot box to pursue them within constitutional constraints. If he doesn’t, it won’t affect his chances of re-election but it might impact his party.

That’s democracy in action for any second term President.

[Anonymouse]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Except that neither Ukraine nor Taiwan are NATO members.

Oops. Good point.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

What you and i define as policy is irrelvant to the discussion, they were Trumps policies and enough of the electorate thought they made sense and were worth voting for.

Which leadds me to two potential conclusions either 1. The American population en masse are a bunch of gibbering idtios (and i don't believe this to be the case) or 2. KH was that BAD she wasn't able to get her message across to the voters (more than likely the case)

She also didn't offer enough of a difference from Biden, who many Americans blame solely (rightly or wrongly) for the past four years. and how could she? when Biden was/is her boss?

You, as with others, prefer to focus on why they did not vote for Harris rather why they picked Trump as if it were a contest of two candidates both equal in terms of integrity, honesty and morals, etc. This is so far from reality that not addressing the elephant in the room is strange.

What he does is not a parochial American problem, it affects the well-being & security of the whole world. Just saying Trump won because Harris was bad is missing so much of the context & nuance.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by ianch99

You, as with others, prefer to focus on why they did not vote for Harris rather why they picked Trump as if it were a contest of two candidates both equal in terms of integrity, honesty and morals, etc. This is so far from reality that not addressing the elephant in the room is strange.

What he does is not a parochial American problem, it affects the well-being & security of the whole world. Just saying Trump won because Harris was bad is missing so much of the context & nuance.

I'm now getting to the point where i think you need to wind your neck in a bit and stop making assumptions on what i'm choosing to focus on when you have the square root of bugger all idea.

I've tried to offer a candid and reasonable viewpoint and if you don't want to engage on that, then i'm not going to contune to try and reason.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

2. KH was that BAD she wasn't able to get her message across to the voters (more than likely the case)

She also didn't offer enough of a difference from Biden, who many Americans blame solely (rightly or wrongly) for the past four years. and how could she? when Biden was/is her boss?

I think you're right on both counts. Where Trump works is presenting himself as the challenger. KH could never do this.

Ironically, the economy has charged ahead under Biden but people just did not get that feeling due to the Covid and Ukraine war-driven price rises. Hence, the need for someone from outside the Biden administration to be the Democrats' presidential candidate.

I'm sure that hindsight will state that they should have ditched Biden earlier, and had an open competition for the new President and Vice President.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by ianch99

You, as with others, prefer to focus on why they did not vote for Harris rather why they picked Trump as if it were a contest of two candidates both equal in terms of integrity, honesty and morals, etc. This is so far from reality that not addressing the elephant in the room is strange.

What he does is not a parochial American problem, it affects the well-being & security of the whole world. Just saying Trump won because Harris was bad is missing so much of the context & nuance.

Do you honestly believe Trump voters did so in ignorance of his integrity, honesty and morals?

You’ve got a severe case of butthurt because you didn’t get your preferred outcome. It gives you no right to pontificate to forum members, nor require others who want to discuss why Harris lost to debate the hypothetical why she should have won.

Folks … it would be great if we could all make a basic, good faith assumption that just because someone chooses to say one thing, does not mean they despise all the other things they didn’t address. Most of us know there’s no point posting more than a couple of paragraphs at a time, most of the time, and none of us are posting everything we think about everything, all the time.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I'm now getting to the point where i think you need to wind your neck in a bit and stop making assumptions on what i'm choosing to focus on when you have the square root of bugger all idea.

I've tried to offer a candid and reasonable viewpoint and if you don't want to engage on that, then i'm not going to contune to try and reason.

I am not being rude to you so I would request the same.

I am making no assumptions here, rather I am reading your posts where you do not discuss the reasons why people voted for Trump but you focus on the fact that they did not vote for Harris. The area that interests me is what *exactly* do they think they voted for and why they do not think it will backfire on them and their children.

Only by understanding this might we think how this could play out. If Trump really believes his plans have a popular mandate, however you might define this, he would forge ahead with little or no moderation. However, if he discovers, and I am not sure this would be done, that his extreme rhetoric was not the main reason he is the next President then we could hope that we would see a more rational and pragmatic administration.

---------- Post added at 14:50 ---------- Previous post was at 14:41 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Do you honestly believe Trump voters did so in ignorance of his integrity, honesty and morals?

You’ve got a severe case of butthurt because you didn’t get your preferred outcome. It gives you no right to pontificate to forum members, nor require others who want to discuss why Harris lost to debate the hypothetical why she should have won.

I don't usually read your posts and I am reminded why.

[Pierre]

The area that interests me is what *exactly* do they think they voted for

Secure the border

Deport illegal migrants

Reduce tax

Reduce inflation

Introduce Tariffs on cheap imports that hurt US manufacturing.

Roll back on Climate targets and policies that hurt US consumers

End the war in Ukraine

End identity politics

Make America great again.....yyyaayy.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Secure the border

Deport illegal migrants

Reduce tax

Reduce inflation

Introduce Tariffs on cheap imports that hurt US manufacturing.

Roll back on Climate targets and policies that hurt US consumers

End the war in Ukraine

End identity politics

Make America great again.....yyyaayy.

I suspect the climate-change drive hurricanes and floods are hurting them more than any costs of transitioning to renewables.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I suspect the climate-change drive hurricanes and floods are hurting them more than any costs of transitioning to renewables.

i think most Americans just want cheap food /gas/mortguages and that means

frack frack frack and drill drill drill ,i don't think fluffy clouds windmills and solar pannels will get a look in unless you reside in california and live in a VW camper van

America isn't as great as it likes to think it is.It's become diminished because it would rather have a convicted con man in charge.

Not that the UK leaders are any more honest.