smoking and the pub

[Salu]

Originally Posted by fireman328

Has anyone considered what the effects of dry ice and smoke machines in places of public entertainment are ?

As far as I am aware the dry ice, CO2 is an asphixiant and the smoke effects are generated by heating vegetable oil.
Will the owners have to go outdoors to use these effects which are very common, particularly at this time of year, with pantomimes attracting children or will some non-smoker decide that this effect is perfectly safe for all to inhale on this occasion. Will a risk assessment be carried out on the effect to patrons and theatre staff of inhaling this smoke. What will be the effect on live theatre if someone sues a club or theatre for not safeguarding their health and safety by allowing them to inhale smoke ?
Oh, I forgot, the witch hunt is only against tobacco smoke.
How many of the non smokers will still attend pantos and discos.
I feel it slightly ironic that all the tobacco smokers will be outside the building in the fresh air whilst all the non smokers will be indoors in the smoke.
It has finally happened, the lunatics are running the asylum.

I depends how you define dangerous. As CO2 is heavier than air then it will sink to the floor so would be more dangerous if you were lying on it. The issue with CO2 is that it binds much more easily than O2 to Haemoglobin and will interfere with your abilty to transport oxygen around the body. The normal concentration of CO2 in the air is around 0.38% and if it gets much beyond 0.5% will start to interfere with your O2 transport. As far as I am aware the dry ice I have seen is only used in short bursts which will be harmless providing there is adequate ventilation. There presumably is some regulation around its use in public places?

Originally Posted by SlackDad

I think this post nicely encapulates the way that as a society we are becoming obessed with risk assessing every aspect of our lives. In the mean time, of course, life is passing us by. I'm frankly starting to wonder that if people are that concerned with smoking in pubs etc. then maybe they haven't really got that much to worry about at all.

So the tactics of the smoking lobby can be summed up something like this:

1. Attempt to deflect the debate onto other health concerns (e.g. alcohol), as if it's impossible to do anything about smoking unless we also do something, simultaneously, about a thousand and one other things.

2. Attempt to characterise the ban itself as an assault on public health because of the possibility of depression in some people who quit. At the same time, conveniently forget that smoking kills far more people than giving up does.

3. Attempt to portray the ban as an assault on freedom. Never mind the fact that non-smokers are in the majority and do not currently have the freedom to go to a pub and not inhale smoky air, because the smokers, who are in the minority, insist on the absolute freedom to indulge in their habit regardless of the fact that it compels others to share it.

and finally, the opus, the masterpiece itself:

4. Attempt to ridicule the arguments in favour of a ban as a hobby of those with nothing better to do with their time. Happily ignore the fact that smoking, and passive smoking, is a killer that many people quite justifiably wish to see taken out of their way.

I have an idea - smokers, if you want to indulge in a potentially fatal habit that gives you a buzz, why not take up base jumping? Then you can take your life into your hands as often as you like without affecting anyone else at the same time.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Chris T

I have an idea - smokers, if you want to indulge in a potentially fatal habit that gives you a buzz, why not take up base jumping? Then you can take your life into your hands as often as you like without affecting anyone else at the same time.

Objection - I consider the screams they make as they fall to their deaths to be noise pollution, just as their nicotine fumes are air pollutants

[fireman328]

Originally Posted by clarie

I am surprised by what you say. of course we are concerned about our health, more to the point, why aren't you?

Probably because we live in the real world where, contrary to government advice, everybody dies at some time.

[clarie]

Originally Posted by Chris T

So the tactics of the smoking lobby can be summed up something like this:

1. Attempt to deflect the debate onto other health concerns (e.g. alcohol), as if it's impossible to do anything about smoking unless we also do something, simultaneously, about a thousand and one other things.

2. Attempt to characterise the ban itself as an assault on public health because of the possibility of depression in some people who quit. At the same time, conveniently forget that smoking kills far more people than giving up does.

3. Attempt to portray the ban as an assault on freedom. Never mind the fact that non-smokers are in the majority and do not currently have the freedom to go to a pub and not inhale smoky air, because the smokers, who are in the minority, insist on the absolute freedom to indulge in their habit regardless of the fact that it compels others to share it.

and finally, the opus, the masterpiece itself:

4. Attempt to ridicule the arguments in favour of a ban as a hobby of those with nothing better to do with their time. Happily ignore the fact that smoking, and passive smoking, is a killer that many people quite justifiably wish to see taken out of their way.

I have an idea - smokers, if you want to indulge in a potentially fatal habit that gives you a buzz, why not take up base jumping? Then you can take your life into your hands as often as you like without affecting anyone else at the same time.

Originally Posted by fireman328

Probably because we live in the real world where, contrary to government advice, everybody dies at some time.

Ah yes, the infamous Tony Blair 'Give up smoking and you can become immortal' speech, I forgot about that one.

You're right. Sod trying to prolong my life. Pass me over that carton of 200 B&H - if you can't beat 'em, join 'em eh! After all I did seemingly give up smoking for nothing...

Originally Posted by fireman328

Probably because we live in the real world where, contrary to government advice, everybody dies at some time.

Later rather than sooner is to be preferred I guess though!

[fireman328]

Originally Posted by Chris T

I have an idea - smokers, if you want to indulge in a potentially fatal habit that gives you a buzz, why not take up base jumping? Then you can take your life into your hands as often as you like without affecting anyone else at the same time.

I have taken my life in my hands quite a lot of times, usually to enter a building when everybody else was running out to find someone trapped by fire , or underneath tube trains picking bits of people from between the rails or shutting down a leaking chlorine cylinder not to mention being on the first attendance in Oford street when the I.R.A. bombed London etc.

Nah, base jumping is for wimps.

Originally Posted by fireman328

I have taken my life in my hands quite a lot of times, usually to enter a building when everybody else was running out to find someone trapped by fire , or underneath tube trains picking bits of people from between the rails or shutting down a leaking chlorine cylinder not to mention being on the first attendance in Oford street when the I.R.A. bombed London etc.

Credit to you for that

Nah, base jumping is for wimps.

And doesn't give you that reall thrill of uneasy danger that smoking does; that permanent adrenaline rush of never knowing quite when it's gonna get ya

[fireman328]

Originally Posted by andyl

Credit to you for that

{QUOTE]Nah, base jumping is for wimps.

And doesn't give you that reall thrill of uneasy danger that smoking does; that permanent adrenaline rush of never knowing quite when it's gonna get ya [/QUOTE]

None of us knows "when its gonna get ya"
My mother lived to be 92, smoked 20 a day until she was 82 then gave up because of the cost.
__________________

Originally Posted by andyl

Later rather than sooner is to be preferred I guess though!

Have you seen some of the people in the geriatric wards, mouths open, eyes closed, drooling, incontinent.
If you want that kind of later then good luck.
I'd rather go quickly with all my senses of a heart attack

[clarie]

Originally Posted by fireman328

I'd rather go quickly with all my senses of a heart attack

But smoking is also a risk for cancer and that would NOT be a quick death.

Originally Posted by fireman328

None of us knows "when its gonna get ya"

That's why it's so scary!

[fireman328]

Originally Posted by Salu

I depends how you define dangerous. As CO2 is heavier than air then it will sink to the floor so would be more dangerous if you were lying on it. The issue with CO2 is that it binds much more easily than O2 to Haemoglobin and will interfere with your abilty to transport oxygen around the body. The normal concentration of CO2 in the air is around 0.38% and if it gets much beyond 0.5% will start to interfere with your O2 transport. As far as I am aware the dry ice I have seen is only used in short bursts which will be harmless providing there is adequate ventilation. There presumably is some regulation around its use in public places?

Sorry, it was a rhetorical question, I used to lecture on hazardous substances and radiation at the Fire Service College.
__________________

Originally Posted by clarie

But smoking is also a risk for cancer and that would NOT be a quick death.

That's why it's so scary!

Death does not scare me it comes to us all, in many and various ways, a lot of which I've seen.

I think as this thread is becoming just like every other thread on smoking I'm unsubscribing.Byeeee...

[clarie]

Death does not scare me it comes to us all, in many and various ways, a lot of which I've seen.

Maybe it doesn't scare you but I want to put it off for as long as possible!

I've had a heart attack. I don't recommend it as such

[Julian]

If our illustrious government REALLY wanted to do something serious about smoking they would do well to target the children who take it up.

Raise the minimum age to 18 to buy tobacco products and, most importantly, make it illegal for children under the age of 18 to POSSESS tobacco products.

You could quite soon remove a generation of potential smokers and remove one of the key things that they think makes them look tough.