Merged: London Broadband.

[Mark W]

Originally posted by rippedoff
[B]For those of you who do not know Orangebird form nthw.com, let me tell you.... she is a waste of space!

Think thats a little uncalled for mate

As to her suggestion by using the new community..... I posted a question on their emai facility on 3/7/03... got an automated reply listing all sorts of websites , but no answer.

well, to be fair, how is she supposed to know exactly whats on there?

As to nthw.com CLT.... has she not looked at this site for a number of years or what. Mention London / South London on that site and all goes quiet.........

Probably because that conversation has been done to death in back?
I'm under the impression the general consensus is some areas of london dont have bb, and dont hold your breath getting it.
I know this angers some, but if you demand british airways fly a jumbo to timbuctoo 3 times a week, they are gonna say no - why? because its not economically viable for them to do so. The same applies to ntl im sure.

I telephoned CS last Tuesday.... they do not have a clue.... said that even though I could not get CR3 or BB, I could get a stand alone cable modem for BB... I said NO I CAN'T... he said ... wait and I will find out.....he then came back and said...."you can not get BB in any shape or form where you are....and we don't have any idea when it will be available".

aside from him faffing about a bit at the start, he DID go and get you a definitive answer, all be it not the one you wanted.

He was wrong.... if I went to BT, I would have a lot of BB choices...........

that leads to an obvious question......

[Undisputedtruth]

Originally posted by Mark W
Think thats a little uncalled for mate

Not really, there is a long history of Orangebird running her mouth with little substance to back it up with.

well, to be fair, how is she supposed to know exactly whats on there?

If she doesn't know then it is better to keep her mouth shut.

Probably because that conversation has been done to death in back?
I'm under the impression the general consensus is some areas of london dont have bb, and dont hold your breath getting it.
I know this angers some, but if you demand british airways fly a jumbo to timbuctoo 3 times a week, they are gonna say no - why? because its not economically viable for them to do so. The same applies to ntl im sure.

No, the conversation of broadband in London was not done to death - it was closed by the moderators. There were attempts to resurrect the thread but the moderators yet again pulled the plug. The thread(s) was/were running since last year. I guess the threads were highly embarrasing to NTL. There is no evidence that London is uneconomical to upgrade whatsoever. It is not London's fault NTL had overspent or poorly manage their resources in other areas.

aside from him faffing about a bit at the start, he DID go and get you a definitive answer, all be it not the one you wanted.

that leads to an obvious question......

What definitive answer? There are suggestions that his area will shortly be upgraded soon. The obvious question that springs to mind is why is NTL are unable to communicate with their customers?

[Mark W]

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth Not really, there is a long history of Orangebird running her mouth with little substance to back it up with.

so you have common interests then?

If she doesn't know then it is better to keep her mouth shut.

hmmm...id hate to repeat myself

No, the conversation of broadband in London was not done to death - it was closed by the moderators. There were attempts to resurrect the thread but the moderators yet again pulled the plug. The thread(s) was/were running since last year. I
guess the threads were highly embarrasing to NTL. There is no evidence that London is uneconomical to upgrade whatsoever. It is not London's fault NTL had overspent or poorly manage their resources in other areas.

Oh, i must have been reading a different thread.
the one i was reading had lots of people going to GREAT lengths to give you the facts and figures you desired, and a reasoned explination as to why broadband was not availiable in your area, only for you to consistently say either "those are not the figures that i have" - tho you never gave those figures, or where you dreamt them up - or "thats not good enough, i demand EXACT figures", and you refusing to divulge why you required them.
then it went on to fibre, and you insisting how as the videotron network was subsidising the rest of ntl you lot should be given fibre instead. then those same valliant souls tried to give a reasoned explination why this was not reasonable either, all of which you dismissed out of hand........
it was about then that i stopped reading what little you had to say......

I am sorry you cannot get broadband, i really am. but that does not change the fact you cant, and no amount of being rude to anyone on here remotley associated to ntl will change that.

[grum1978]

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Not really, there is a long history of Orangebird running her mouth with little substance to back it up with.

Pot kettle and black spring to mind here UDT...

Me wonders why

...I know this angers some, but if you demand british airways fly a jumbo to timbuctoo 3 times a week, they are gonna say no - why? because its not economically viable for them to do so. The same applies to ntl im sure...

British Airways, now that's a real company a really good one and ntl senior management could learn something from BA. I think it's more likely ntl would offer a jumbo 3 times a week for Timbuctoo and charge for it whether it flies or not!

Frankly, all customers in Greater London would like is to receive the services they are being charged for and customers elewhere enjoy. Greater London without doubt is a wealthy region with lots of wealthy customers. Surely, isn't it time somebody in authority at ntl made a public statement clearing up the issue of BB/interactive availability for customers in the region.

[Tristan]

Originally posted by Gogogo
British Airways, now that's a real company a really good one and ntl senior management could learn something from BA.

I can't work out whether this is sarcasm or not... are you aware of the financial state BA (and the rest of the full-service airline industry) is in? They're being murdered by the likes of EasyJet and RyanAir. But back on topic...

Customers do recieve the service they pay for, and conversely, pay only for the services they receive. Are you suggesting there are people in London who are being charged for broadband, but not getting it?

As to NTL making some sort of official statement, I couldn't agree more....

What you need is somebody like Drew from Digitalspy. He used to post on there regularly when NTL were rolling out broadband in other ex-CWC areas, letting us know the target dates and so forth. Whatever happened to that guy?

[hawkmoon]

Originally posted by Mark W
Think thats a little uncalled for mate



I'm under the impression the general consensus is some areas of london dont have bb, and dont hold your breath getting it.
I know this angers some, but if you demand british airways fly a jumbo to timbuctoo 3 times a week, they are gonna say no - why? because its not economically viable for them to do so. The same applies to ntl im sure.

So you think it is "not economically viable" for NTL to offer BB in the capital of the UK. The ex-videotron areas account for around 1 million homes - although not all of these would have taken cable. This is still a very large potential market.

BT take the opposite view and that is why the London exchanges are pretty much the first to be upgraded.

[Stuart]

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Not really, there is a long history of Orangebird running her mouth with little substance to back it up with.

If she doesn't know then it is better to keep her mouth shut.

I am sorry, it is uncalled for. Abusing people makes them less likely to want to help.

No, the conversation of broadband in London was not done to death - it was closed by the moderators. There were attempts to resurrect the thread but the moderators yet again pulled the plug. The thread(s) was/were running since last year. I guess the threads were highly embarrasing to NTL. There is no evidence that London is uneconomical to upgrade whatsoever. It is not London's fault NTL had overspent or poorly manage their resources in other areas.

No, it's not London's fault. The fact is though (and tough as it may be) that NTL are under the control of Bond holders. If the Bond holders say they have to cut costs, they HAVE to cut costs (even if it affect the service) because if the bond holders decide they want their money back (which as I understand it, they are entitled to do), NTL have to pay it even if it bankrupts the company. I have worked for a company that was under the control of Bond Holders, and I know for a fact that they will do that if their demands aren't met.

With the comms market the way it is, in the event of NTL going bankrupt), the network would probably be taken over and SHUT DOWN by BT and Sky, because Telewest are under the same financial constraints that NTL are.

Still, that doesn't account for Videotron, CWC and NTL not installing Broadband in London before the collapse of the comms market..

What definitive answer? There are suggestions that his area will shortly be upgraded soon. The obvious question that springs to mind is why is NTL are unable to communicate with their customers?

That is a good question. NTL don't seem to be generally able to communicate with customers (apart from those people that post on here and, for a while at least, on .com).

[Stuart]

Originally posted by hawkmoon
So you think it is "not economically viable" for NTL to offer BB in the capital of the UK. The ex-videotron areas account for around 1 million homes - although not all of these would have taken cable. This is still a very large potential market.

BT take the opposite view and that is why the London exchanges are pretty much the first to be upgraded.

Depends how much work the network needs, and how much it would cost to fix it.

Videotron did use cheap cable and cheap installers (see posts by BBKing and Escapee on .com for that info), and the quality of the network has degraded by all accounts. In some areas, it is not capable of carrying broadband data because the return path is not strong enough.

Anyway, aren't NTL currently upgrading the old Videotron areas? That is a rumour, but in the absence of any official comment, it is all we have.

Originally posted by scastle
...Anyway, aren't NTL currently upgrading the old Videotron areas? That is a rumour, but in the absence of any official comment, it is all we have.

"but in the absence of any official comment." How long must we wait for "any official comment" surely someone is capable of making an official statement concerning as someone said earlier the availability or non-availability of BB/interactive in the capital city of the UK possible Olympic city!

[Undisputedtruth]

Originally posted by Mark W
Oh, i must have been reading a different thread.
the one i was reading had lots of people going to GREAT lengths to give you the facts and figures you desired, and a reasoned explination as to why broadband was not availiable in your area, only for you to consistently say either "those are not the figures that i have" - tho you never gave those figures, or where you dreamt them up - or "thats not good enough, i demand EXACT figures", and you refusing to divulge why you required them.
then it went on to fibre, and you insisting how as the videotron network was subsidising the rest of ntl you lot should be given fibre instead. then those same valliant souls tried to give a reasoned explination why this was not reasonable either, all of which you dismissed out of hand........
it was about then that i stopped reading what little you had to say......

Well I do not expect a NTL associate to get things right or even read things right!

Are you serious? Do you really expect me to take advice from "fedupwithntl". A man who cannot hardly spell much less convince me his figures were accurate. I can only imagine that Mark and fedupwithntl are on the same intellectual level. It is not unreasonable to ask for some accurate figures. Yes, I know the word "accuracy" is not in NTL's dictionary which is why they have a terrible record in sending out accurate bills.

There is some much bs from NTL that it is not unreasonable to listen to the likes of NTL associates. They don't know what goes on in their company, they have a awful record of customer services and know one believes a word they say. Is there any point listening to what an NTL associate says? If so, can you give me just one example?

I think NTL were far too embarrass to release the number of customers in London (Videotron). There has been a huge migration of customers leaving NTL (174,000) last year. NTL were unable to take advantage of the collapse of On Digital and if NTL did not have broadband, the number of customers leaving NTL would be far greater. Not to mention the fact customers are only willing to stay with NTL because they do not want to have a satellite dish on their property. Let's face it, we know NTL is awful, which is why there are a number of websites like this!

[Tristan]

UDT, you're forgetting the first rule of debating. Don't insult your opponent. Rip what they're saying to peices, but getting personal is totally unnecessary.

Now as you know, this site has nothing to do with NTL. So any NTL associates posting on here are doing so in their own time, off their own backs, because they want to try and help us. Why start insulting them for doing that?

Mark has passed on what information he has. With respect to him, he's not high up in the company. He cannot be expected to produce all the facts and figures you demand. (In fact, I would go so far as to say that NTL cannot be expected to produce the figures you demand -- when was the last time you heard BT telling people how much is costs to convert an exchange to ADSL? They never give the exact figures.)

And as to you taking advice from a man who "cannot hardly spell"...

There's one point thought that no-one has managed to counter yet. Broadband is NTL's most profitable product. It's the one they're marketting hardest nationally. They want broadband customers. With this in mind, the only possible explaination for not offering it in London is that it is uneconomic to upgrade the areas. Otherwise, why else would NTL be holding back?

[bigitup_j]

but how do we know ntl are holding back. they are probably waiting to get all of london upgraded, so as not to cause hell at customer services, trying to explain this bit of london is done, but accross the road there is no bb because...
the directors of ntl have been set (and have been setting) deadlines to get bb up and running in london by the end of this year. they have spent loads of money on upgrading london, but are just finishing off the job. a few more months, and londoners will be saying how great ntl bb is and how they could ever be so horrible to ntl!

[binary]

Whoah- this is all getting a bit bitchy! Let's keep it cool.

As I'm one of the instigators of this discussion, please let me take the liberty outlining why this is still an issue, and what questions are still unanswered. Apologies for the lengthy post.

Mark W, I'm really glad you're on the forum providing some hard facts. However I do have to take you up on this comment (in a constructive rather than destructive way).

Originally posted by Mark W
...
Probably because that conversation has been done to death?
I'm under the impression the general consensus is some areas of London donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t have bb, and donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t hold your breath getting it.
...

I don't think the London broadband conversation has been done to death for reasons I'm about to explain.
My understanding of the London broadband issue is this:

(a) The Videotron network, as originally constructed, was of poor quality, and much of it is not in a fit state to support broadband. Additionally subsequent maintenance to it has been lacklustre.

(b) If upgraded, the network could carry broadband. However this is unlikely anytime soon as NTL has little money to upgrade the network.

If this was the end of the story then I'd accept that I would not get NTL broadband for a long time.

But...

(c) I have read a few times that there are plans to upgrade the London network to carry broadband, though this is always very vague.

(d) I received an email inviting me to be a member of a broadband trial in my area in November 2002. I was very busy at the time, so I never followed it up. However this does suggest that NTL were testing the resilience of their network, in my area at least (somewhere in Southwark), with a view to launching a full service.

(e) micaAB's post on the last page (post #41) suggests that NTL are launching broadband in London in places where people had given up on waiting. Indeed micaAB had given up on NTL, rang to cancel his service, and was then told that broadband had launched in the area!


The reason I'm hanging on for NTL broadband is that I think it'll be a more flexible service than ADSL (with the choice of different speeds up to 1MB). Plus I think that overall, with a phone line & pay television, NTL comes in cheaper than the BT/ Sky/ ADSL ISP combination.
(And I'm not keen on Murdoch/ BSkyB becoming the pay TV gatekeeper of the digital future, so wish to support competition).

I have access to fast net access elsewhere, otherwise I would have already exercised my consumer choice by switching to BT & ADSL.


Perhaps all NTL is doing is keeping up the facade that broadband is coming imminently to areas in London, in order to hold on to customers such as myself. (Then perhaps eventually once they have the resources NTL will upgrade the network for broadband.)

What I would like from an informed source is a straight answer on whether some areas in London will not be getting broadband for years because of the dodgy network.

Then we will know for sure, and can stop moaning here about the wait for NTL broadband.

[Undisputedtruth]

Originally posted by binary

I don't think the London broadband conversation has been done to death for reasons I'm about to explain.
My understanding of the London broadband issue is this:

I fully agree - the subject was getting embarrassing for NTL. There was some determination from the mods to close the long running thread.

(a)he Videotron network, as originally constructed, was of poor quality, and much of it is not in a fit state to support broadband. Additionally subsequent maintenance to it has been lacklustre.

If that is the case - then why is bb being rolled in one of Videotron's oldest network?

(c) I have read a few times that there are plans to upgrade the London network to carry broadband, though this is always very vague.

What I would like from an informed source is a straight answer on whether some areas in London will not be getting broadband for years because of the dodgy network.

Then we will know for sure, and can stop moaning here about the wait for NTL broadband.

[/B]