Is a half hour wait acceptable?

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Mr.Moony

Well untill you sit here on the end of the phones, what you know = Nothing.
Keep Trying

Ohhh an Btw our systems arent handled by NTL (Duhh)

And this was relevant to my post how? It is exactly this kind of attitude that is directly linked to the hugely mediocre service offered by BBTS.

You seem to think I know nothing about how call centres work, yet you know nothing about me, what I do or what I can bring to the party. I do believe to some extent in the saying 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' but I don't think even you sat there with your never ending stream of callers in the queue could honestly say 'it ain't broke'.

Originally Posted by Mr.Moony

See now this is how calls would go up.
Mr.Jones here cant connect to the internet. He may currently think 'hmm its probably a local outage, il give it a couple of hours then ring'
However Mr.Jones knows he doesnt have to pay for this call, so its probably worth ringing up the free technical support number.
/40 minutes on hold 'Ohhh it was a local outage, thats ok I dont pay for this anyway'

Mr.Jones has just caused Mrs.Maple who cant receive her emails an extra wait.

Which is exactly how my previous suggestion would work, becuase the 'reception' would handle this, having access to such outage information and could inform Mr Jones of the problem. Mrs Maple therefore gets put straight through to TS even quicker.

In addition, don't forget that there is already a freephone status line - which usually updated so long after the outage begins to render it useless.

[Stuart W]

Originally Posted by paulyoung666

just one point when you / we had a problem did you check ntl's server status page to see if there were any problems
also why didnt you think of ringing c.s first to see if there were any known problems , it is freephone

Sorry, had to say something....

This realy get's my goat!

I turn on the PC and can't get on the web. Some wise arse asks me to check the on-line status page. HOW??
As for ringing CS... they tell you to try the website (!) then tell you that you need to speak to cable modem support as it's not their 'area'.

[Mr.Moony]

Originally Posted by andygrif

You seem to think I know nothing about how call centres work, yet you know nothing about me, what I do or what I can bring to the party.

If ur that great im sure you have a high paid job already then, and your very good if you have time to think you can help improve the ntl infrastructure also.
/salutes

Originally Posted by andygrif

Which is exactly how my previous suggestion would work, becuase the 'reception' would handle this, having access to such outage information and could inform Mr Jones of the problem. Mrs Maple therefore gets put straight through to TS even quicker.

Reminds me of a virus team we once had. They were swamped in calls, then if the customer was clean they would have an even longer wait while they get transfered. There would have to be so many receptionist, it would make less TS/Cmr Service Agents. Unless...they could pre-record outages....my god thats great. (ohh wait some1 thought of it)

Anyway this is a discussion that will never end in my opinion. Im giving up.

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Mr.Moony

If ur that great im sure you have a high paid job already then, and your very good if you have time to think you can help improve the ntl infrastructure also.
/salutes

I do alright, thanks for your concern. I'm a senior manager for a service related business, so actually I do understand many of the issues at stake. Yes I do have time to think about how to make things better, that's my job - I am always looking at improving my customers' experience with interaction with my employees. That's the difference between us, I spend time coming up with improvements and listening to people who without anything constructive to add inventing reasons why it won't work. But I think my results speak for themselves.

Originally Posted by Mr.Moony

Reminds me of a virus team we once had. They were swamped in calls, then if the customer was clean they would have an even longer wait while they get transfered. There would have to be so many receptionist, it would make less TS/Cmr Service Agents. Unless...they could pre-record outages....my god thats great. (ohh wait some1 thought of it)

Anyway this is a discussion that will never end in my opinion. Im giving up.

How is this relevant? If you read my suggestion again, you will see that I am suggesting local 'receptionists' that handle low-level and simple Q&A's and direct to centralised speciallists like your good self. So far you are the only person who has told me it won't work but you haven't given any tangelable reasons as to why that is so.

With respect, I come into contact with people like you every day of my life - and I understand you fear change. Whilst it's the customers who will ultimately benefit from properly managed change, so will you and your colleagues because you can be properly focussed in your areas of expertise, without having to worry about people with network problems that you can't help clogging up the phone queues for you.

And the most important thing, without wishing to sound arrogant, just becuase you don't agree with me doesn't mean I'm not right!

[Mark W]

ok, a few points if i may?...but first let me start by saying that no, for course i dont think a 40 min wait is acceptable. one thing ntl HAVE done to help resolve that is take on a whole load more staff in tech support, who are just finishing their training now....

anyway...

If the customer had one free number to call, each call could be handled quickly and efficiently (and immidiately) via a 'receptionist' that could direct the call to the relevent next level, such as faults, BBTS, customer service, etc. Obviously depending on the level of calls of the next level, customers might experience some delay, but at least they are not then subjected to call costs whilst in a queue.

ummm...one number? most franchises now have 0800 0522000 - you call that number and you can go through to customer services, faults or tech support. you press option tech support and you get put into our q....so good idea - its already being done...

From there I think that each region should have its own tech support for internet. Quite often there are network problems in the local area, which ideally the local area should know about first. In my experience, on such occasions Swnasea may not be aware (or at least claim not to be) of these issues when calling. Localised tech support could identify these issues, make local networks people aware and potentially resolve the issue much faster

tech support have had just about the same access to faults as customer services, and have now just got a new, apparantly better system, of finding any faults in that customers area by entering their postcode. AFAIK the whle faults system is done on a national level, and as for local franchises telling local faults.....tech support share the same building as the fault management center - the people who deal with these faults - and there are processes to pass on any possible issues developing onto them.
As an aside, call trends are monitored comming into tech support on a real time basis - so say a pile of people start calling from nottingham regarding connection issues, with no known faults there, that will get picked up and investigated. So if you like, tech support would be the FIRST to know of any developing faults.

If you can back up the fact that a freephone line will generate more calls, then please give examples. Personally I do not believe it will. Why? Becuase I don't want to talk to the people in tech support, unless I have a problem. It's not like I'm going to call you up and talk about the weather is it?

I can back that up. before working in broadband tech support, i used to do narrowband (dialup) support, back in the day when it was £1 per min. you generally KNEW they had a proper issue when they called up as they would have tried themselves first to fix the problem rather than just say "oh, its not working, ill call tech support"
ALOT of calls we take CAN be fixed by the customer themselves, if they work through it, and read avaliable help options. a surprising ammount of people are afraid to do a thing to their pc tho without somone telling them exactly what to do - try it! its not gonna bite you!
as for people calling up about the weather - i had a lady last week call up to ask how to find out about the best heat for geraniums.....

Look at the customers' point of view. Why should I have to spend an hour on hold, paying for the call, to be told that the fault is at your end after all? A lesser person than I might think of that as extortion or fraud!

im not sure, but if it was a definate ntl fault, you would have a case for getting that knocked off your phone bill by customer services - i know that was the case on the premium line

My way offers customers who have connection problems less of an INSULT when phoning up to be told your system is falling apart again

a little while ago i made a record of the sort of calls i got on a particular day
i took 32 calls.
2 were faults with the STB
1 was an outage
1 was giving a customers pid number (something he had lost)
6 were finding out customers email details as they had lost/not written them down
and 21 were altering peoples pc settings to get them back online/better thier connection/setting up outlook express

so out of 32 calls, 3 were things that were ntl issues. ok, admittedly that was a little - and only a little mind you - low, ntl faults wise, but even if you x4 it, that still leaves you with 2/3 of the calls comming in being related to the customers pc. please dont be INSULTED by us assuming its your pc....its just a fact that most calls we take ARE to do with the customers pc, and so thats where we generally start to look for the problem.....

Personally I am not sure that the people in tech support handle that many either

we have strict guidlines on how long the average call is supposed to be, and if we dont make those criteria we get in trouble.... - last week i sat in a disciplinary with a collegue who consistently failed to meet them - and we are not talking by too much either. he is not a bad tech at all, but did his job thoroughly, to make sure that customer did not call back.....

anyway...think this is turning into a thesis

[andygrif]

Constructive post, thanks.

Originally Posted by Mark W

ummm...one number? most franchises now have 0800 0522000 - you call that number and you can go through to customer services, faults or tech support. you press option tech support and you get put into our q....so good idea - its already being done...

I can't get through to Broadband Tech support from that number. Plus by screening via a human being and low level call handling, it has been proven that the people who are grouped by area of expertise are more focussed, more efficient and have high levels of morale than those who arean't.

I don't disagree with any of the facts you present, and I am sure you do have methods of trend tracking and so on....but the one thing is paramount:

For the customer....it isn't working

Originally Posted by Mark W

I can back that up. before working in broadband tech support, i used to do narrowband (dialup) support, back in the day when it was £1 per min. you generally KNEW they had a proper issue when they called up as they would have tried themselves first to fix the problem rather than just say "oh, its not working, ill call tech support"
ALOT of calls we take CAN be fixed by the customer themselves, if they work through it, and read avaliable help options. a surprising ammount of people are afraid to do a thing to their pc tho without somone telling them exactly what to do - try it! its not gonna bite you!
as for people calling up about the weather - i had a lady last week call up to ask how to find out about the best heat for geraniums.....

I'm sorry, that is not a reason for a customer not to call, just becuase you don't consider their problem to be 'real'. All problems are real to the customer - and the long term damage of them suffering from such problems is that they will get fed up and cancel. I know I've come close on many occasions. How many problems are not being tracked becuase customers having already dealt with the level of service on the £1 per minute line never call back? How do you track that?

Originally Posted by Mark W

im not sure, but if it was a definate ntl fault, you would have a case for getting that knocked off your phone bill by customer services - i know that was the case on the premium line

What? Every time? At the time this is all well and good, but it's more hassle than it is worth - whilst still being a big bone of contention. To have spent an hour in a queue to be told there is something wrong, following a call to the status line that tells me nothing is wrong, the concept of sitting in another call queue to claim my 2 quid back is silly. But when you add up how much extra month ntl has leeched from my account becuase of network problems I take offence at it.

Originally Posted by Mark W

a little while ago i made a record of the sort of calls i got on a particular day
i took 32 calls.
2 were faults with the STB
1 was an outage
1 was giving a customers pid number (something he had lost)
6 were finding out customers email details as they had lost/not written them down
and 21 were altering peoples pc settings to get them back online/better thier connection/setting up outlook express

so out of 32 calls, 3 were things that were ntl issues. ok, admittedly that was a little - and only a little mind you - low, ntl faults wise, but even if you x4 it, that still leaves you with 2/3 of the calls comming in being related to the customers pc. please dont be INSULTED by us assuming its your pc....its just a fact that most calls we take ARE to do with the customers pc, and so thats where we generally start to look for the problem.....

Which is again why my system would work, as it would operate on a pay per incident support method.

Originally Posted by Mark W

we have strict guidlines on how long the average call is supposed to be, and if we dont make those criteria we get in trouble.... - last week i sat in a disciplinary with a collegue who consistently failed to meet them - and we are not talking by too much either. he is not a bad tech at all, but did his job thoroughly, to make sure that customer did not call back.....

anyway...think this is turning into a thesis

All of which unfortunately re-affirms the fact that ntl are not overly interesting in how customers are treated. This is probably one of the reasons why staff in these call centres are so demotivated and take their frustrations out on the customers. Sad isn't it.

[Mr.Moony]

Originally Posted by andygrif

With respect, I come into contact with people like you every day of my life - and I understand you fear change.

I fear no change

[Mark W]

Originally Posted by andygrif

Plus by screening via a human being and low level call handling, it has been proven that the people who are grouped by area of expertise are more focussed, more efficient and have high levels of morale than those who arean't.

screening and low level call handling?? the virus team was mentioned earlier - that was screening. you have NO IDEA how many irate customers we had, when we told them "no, sorry, this isnt tech support, we are just doing a few checks on your pc, then well pass you onto ANOTHER call q to get your problem fixed".....trust me, ive been there - that screening idea does not work
also, make your mind up earlier you said that the local franchises should do the tech support - tho they are only really customer services. so they would become a jack of all trades - hardly "grouped by area of expertise". i agree with you - people are more focused that way - hence tech support is all grouped together in swansea.

I'm sorry, that is not a reason for a customer not to call, just becuase you don't consider their problem to be 'real'. All problems are real to the customer - and the long term damage of them suffering from such problems is that they will get fed up and cancel.

very true, but this thread is about q times. the point i was trying to make is that whilst the customer undoubtedly has a problem, they are often able to fix themselves if they just tired. if they did that, they would fix the problem, they wouldnt have to call us, the call q's would drop.

What? Every time? At the time this is all well and good, but it's more hassle than it is worth - whilst still being a big bone of contention. To have spent an hour in a queue to be told there is something wrong, following a call to the status line that tells me nothing is wrong, the concept of sitting in another call queue to claim my 2 quid back is silly. But when you add up how much extra month ntl has leeched from my account becuase of network problems I take offence at it.

I KNOW you will get reimbursed for network problems - but i cant really see how you can take offence at them taking money out of your account if you refuse to tell them you have had a problem with your service??

Which is again why my system would work, as it would operate on a pay per incident support method.

I SHUDDER to think of the average customers response if we turned around and said "yea, we can fix that, but it'll cost ya".
at the moment we will do all we can to get that customer back online, or improve his service. even if its because they thought they were bill gates and played with the settings of their pc or done something themselves to knacker their connection. often that means an overhaul of most of the settings in their pc. all for a local rate call. i personally dont think thats extortion......

[asdf]

At local call rate 30 minutes in a queue is only 30p anyways, hardly extortionate as you say!

Try ringing a support line that costs you £1/minute

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Mark W

screening and low level call handling?? the virus team was mentioned earlier - that was screening. you have NO IDEA how many irate customers we had, when we told them "no, sorry, this isnt tech support, we are just doing a few checks on your pc, then well pass you onto ANOTHER call q to get your problem fixed".....trust me, ive been there - that screening idea does not work

That was specific to a problem, which I have to say ntl didn't handle terribly well in the initial stages. This is irrelivant to the bigger picture.

Originally Posted by Mark W

also, make your mind up earlier you said that the local franchises should do the tech support - tho they are only really customer services. so they would become a jack of all trades - hardly "grouped by area of expertise". i agree with you - people are more focused that way - hence tech support is all grouped together in swansea.

You have misunderstood what I said. Local network related tech support should be handled on a local basis. Centralised incedent related tech support should be grouped.

Originally Posted by Mark W

very true, but this thread is about q times. the point i was trying to make is that whilst the customer undoubtedly has a problem, they are often able to fix themselves if they just tired. if they did that, they would fix the problem, they wouldnt have to call us, the call q's would drop.

Yes it is about queue times, but the two are linked. Becuase ntl's service is so appalling at such regular intervals, the costs that your customers have to endure are unacceptable. If I could get through instantly at any time, I doubt anyone would be saying that they object to the costs of a local call. But this is in the perfect world, and I have to say that bar a couple of occasions you and your colleagues have not got to my call in any period less than 45 minutes. Like I said before, this is unacceptable. I don't blame you for this personally, I blame the system. The system doesn't work. The system needs to change. If you don't think tried and tested systems like I have suggested work, then why don't you come up with a better one?

I'm sick and tired of hearing the same negativity, but I never hear any suggestions from the people who claim to know thatg all this stuff 'won't work' never telling me what would work.

Originally Posted by Mark W

I KNOW you will get reimbursed for network problems - but i cant really see how you can take offence at them taking money out of your account if you refuse to tell them you have had a problem with your service??

Yes I know I would too, if I wanted to. Like I said before, it's not worth the hassle. I've tried it, it's a hassle, it's my decision to not have any more ntl induced stress in my life.

Originally Posted by Mark W

I SHUDDER to think of the average customers response if we turned around and said "yea, we can fix that, but it'll cost ya".

Other much more successful organisations operate on such a model. Why do you think they are much more successful?

Originally Posted by Mark W

at the moment we will do all we can to get that customer back online, or improve his service. even if its because they thought they were bill gates and played with the settings of their pc or done something themselves to knacker their connection. often that means an overhaul of most of the settings in their pc. all for a local rate call. i personally dont think thats extortion......

And again, I'll say this is why a pay per incedent service is a better idea for pc related or setting related issues. If I started twiddling my settings and couldn't get on the net as a result, I'd be quite happy to cough up a few quid to know I could get it fixed.

Right now, I have cough up a few quid, waste an hour of my life just to be told that there's nothing can be done anyway!

You see my point?

[Jason1]

Ntl london customer services, Faults and broadband tech support always have a holding time of between 1-2 hours of the most mind boggling music you have ever heard where do they get that crap from! But they way the company is run they would feel this is a acceptable holding time

[asdf]

Originally Posted by andygrif

And again, I'll say this is why a pay per incedent service is a better idea for pc related or setting related issues. If I started twiddling my settings and couldn't get on the net as a result, I'd be quite happy to cough up a few quid to know I could get it fixed.

Right now, I have cough up a few quid, waste an hour of my life just to be told that there's nothing can be done anyway!

You see my point?

Surely this would give the impression that ntl officially support problems with your computer, that you have made?

[Mr.Moony]

I think this is a correct way people think of the ntl management :

Manager 1 : 'ohhh my theres only 3 people in the queue'
Manager 2 :'My word we'd better let go some more agents'
Manager 1 : 'Quite'
Manager 2 : 'Do you need a 50 dollar bill to light that my friend ?'

Idiots. Untill andygrif sits next to me on the phone he can continue talking the talk.
The current head magement is a very down to earth person, and coming down the earth is what allot of people need to do. Visions are nothing but their name and for someone who hasnt even sat in an ntl call centre yet thinks he is the answer to every problem quite frankly needs to stop tripping, stop drinking the coffee and worry about their own affairs.

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Mr.Moony

I think this is a correct way people think of the ntl management :

Manager 1 : 'ohhh my theres only 3 people in the queue'
Manager 2 :'My word we'd better let go some more agents'
Manager 1 : 'Quite'
Manager 2 : 'Do you need a 50 dollar bill to light that my friend ?'

Idiots. Untill andygrif sits next to me on the phone he can continue talking the talk.
The current head magement is a very down to earth person, and coming down the earth is what allot of people need to do. Visions are nothing but their name and for someone who hasnt even sat in an ntl call centre yet thinks he is the answer to every problem quite frankly needs to stop tripping, stop drinking the coffee and worry about their own affairs.

And until ntl employees start treating the customers as something more than an irritation, then the problem will remain.

I'll bow out now, agreeing to disagree with you.

[Nikko]

Originally Posted by andygrif

And until ntl employees start treating the customers as something more than an irritation, then the problem will remain.

I'll bow out now, agreeing to disagree with you.

I think you will find most ntl employees do not see customers as an irrititation.

Unless, of course, they are irritating.

Examples of which include insults, patronising attitudes, know it all mentality and may be found in a few posts immediately above.