ntl signs up for Indian BB sales centre

[ThePinkRat]

Welcome to capitalism, boys and girls!

[abailey152]

Originally Posted by Scooby

That seems to be a very naive point of view Kitty - I have no doubt that you wear and own plenty of things that have been made 'on the cheap' in 3rd world countries and I also have no doubt that you are not as opinionated about this.

As I see it, buying a product made in somewhere like India is one thing. But having support for a product sourced there is a different matter.

I find that phone support is bad enough when it is 50 miles down the road, but when it's the other side of the world.....eeek!

I guess it would be exactly the same the other way round. No, there's nothing like having support which is accessible locally, wherever you live, and I've found that in the most part that the further it is away, the worse it gets. There are exceptions, but they are definitely in the minority.

Personally, I'd rather pay a little more for an item, knowing that I can get support locally, than source it cheaper, miles away and pay later when something goes wrong.

Anyway, I don't think this call centre is for support. I believe it is for sales, which is a slightly different matter. I guess it isn't quite as important where the sales centre is, unless it needs to deal with variable cicumstances and local customs. Then it would be a disaster not to have it locally.

Originally Posted by Scooby

Lets face facts here, if a company can get an equally as good product from a different country at less than half the cost who isn't going to take it up? The fact that alot of the workers in the indian call centres are very well educated certainly helps make their product very appealing to most!

A call centre is a SERVICE, not a product. A slight distinction, but an important one nevertheless. I would apply different rules to manufactured goods, than I would to services. Like you say, a lot of goods are made in 3rd world countries, even for major brand names. However, I think most services tend to be handled locally, for all the reasons detailed above.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by abailey152

As I see it, buying a product made in somewhere like India is one thing. But having support for a product sourced there is a different matter.

I find that phone support is bad enough when it is 50 miles down the road, but when it's the other side of the world.....eeek!

I guess it would be exactly the same the other way round. No, there's nothing like having support which is accessible locally, wherever you live, and I've found that in the most part that the further it is away, the worse it gets. There are exceptions, but they are definitely in the minority.

Personally, I'd rather pay a little more for an item, knowing that I can get support locally, than source it cheaper, miles away and pay later when something goes wrong.

Anyway, I don't think this call centre is for support. I believe it is for sales, which is a slightly different matter. I guess it isn't quite as important where the sales centre is, unless it needs to deal with variable cicumstances and local customs. Then it would be a disaster not to have it locally.


A call centre is a SERVICE, not a product. A slight distinction, but an important one nevertheless. I would apply different rules to manufactured goods, than I would to services. Like you say, a lot of goods are made in 3rd world countries, even for major brand names. However, I think most services tend to be handled locally, for all the reasons detailed above.

Agreed I reqally think people need to realise we are talking about services. What would their feelings be if the councils outsourced to india so everytime they had a problem with the council tax/ refuse collection you had to go through India..

Services should stay home manufacturing you have a choice. The product says where its manufactored and you buy it if you want or pay more for local manufactured products..

As for the call center being for sales some of the staff being made redundant could have filled those posts and been in work. Also as BT line customers have been forced to use Indian call centers for a long while now that is what they are trying to get away from... Do you think they are going to order BB of these same indian call centers when there are loads of smaller ISPs that keep the call centers in the U.K....

[huxleypiguk]

Originally Posted by Kitty

Agreed I reqally think people need to realise we are talking about services. What would their feelings be if the councils outsourced to india so everytime they had a problem with the council tax/ refuse collection you had to go through India..

But how would you know ? If they were trained enough you couldn't tell !

Originally Posted by Kitty

As for the call center being for sales some of the staff being made redundant could have filled those posts and been in work. Also as BT line customers have been forced to use Indian call centers for a long while now that is what they are trying to get away from... Do you think they are going to order BB of these same indian call centers when there are loads of smaller ISPs that keep the call centers in the U.K....

OK, lets knock the door and talk to Ronnie Real. The fact is that there are shed loads of jobs out there right now and companies are having serious problems recruiting. A lot of people join, get trained and then leave centres in very short spaces of time, the turnover is very high and the commitment is very low.

In Indian, Dominica, Malaysia, etc, the level of commitment is much much higher and staff retention is also high.

Add to that the cost of setting up and running a centre, its no wonder that India looks attractive.

Frankly most people don't actually give a damm where their service is as long as they can get through and get an answer !

[Florence]

Originally Posted by huxleypiguk

But how would you know ? If they were trained enough you couldn't tell !



OK, lets knock the door and talk to Ronnie Real. The fact is that there are shed loads of jobs out there right now and companies are having serious problems recruiting. A lot of people join, get trained and then leave centres in very short spaces of time, the turnover is very high and the commitment is very low.

In Indian, Dominica, Malaysia, etc, the level of commitment is much much higher and staff retention is also high.

Add to that the cost of setting up and running a centre, its no wonder that India looks attractive.

Frankly most people don't actually give a damm where their service is as long as they can get through and get an answer !

That is the problem the BT customers are not getting the answers, They are having problems understanding the accents and if the person is from Scotland they have been getting told to call back as the support staff cannot understand them..

[abailey152]

Originally Posted by huxleypiguk

But how would you know ? If they were trained enough you couldn't tell !

And how many Indian call centres have you dealt with, where you find them trained to the point you can't tell where they are from? Local customs and events are a giveaway. Call Centre staff are not trained to the degree you describe. They simply cannot understand problems encountered at a local level. Anyone in this country would not understand local issues in India, so how could it be different the other way round?

This is not a matter of intelligence, or saying we are better or anything like that. It's just that local customs and events are generally neither known about, nor understood by outsiders.

And the point is, where support or backup is concerned (as in the example of a local council), ultimately WE are paying for this. Ideally, we all want problems sorted with the minimum of hassle, and for that to happen, we need to be talking to someone who has some experiance and knowledge of the issues, not just someone who has been on a course or seminar.

Originally Posted by huxleypiguk

OK, lets knock the door and talk to Ronnie Real. The fact is that there are shed loads of jobs out there right now and companies are having serious problems recruiting. A lot of people join, get trained and then leave centres in very short spaces of time, the turnover is very high and the commitment is very low.

Shed loads of jobs, eh? I suggest you come to Stoke. I think you'll find reality a bit different.

And turnover of staff may be high, because call centres (especially support centres) are usually given a such a low priority by companies here, that they pay the bottom rate and give the staff little support. If they gave customer support a higher profile, perhaps things would be better? I find a lot of UK companies put such a lot of effort in sales, but sod all into support. Result = a lot of one time only buyers. My experience with US companies is the other way round. They have tended to provide good backup and support, so I keep using them.

Originally Posted by huxleypiguk

Frankly most people don't actually give a damm where their service is as long as they can get through and get an answer !

I agree, that's the key, isn't it? Getting an answer or result. In my experience, in a lot of cases, distant call centres fail to provide the result I want.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by huxleypiguk

A lot of people join, get trained and then leave centres in very short spaces of time, the turnover is very high and the commitment is very low.

But you have to ask why retention is so bad, its because the targets are usually too high and the company treat the call centre staff with utter contempt.

I've worked in several call centres and I can tell you they are horrid places to work, most (not all) company's aren't that bothered about their call centre turn over, they don't care because there are others waiting to walk in where others have walked out.

Frankly most people don't actually give a damm where their service is as long as they can get through and get an answer !

I think your wrong there, most DO care that they are speaking with someone on the other side of the world who has little or no knowledge of the product they are supporting.

I rang Dell on a support matter and got through to India, the guy I spoke with couldn't understand what I was asking because it wasn't on his script. Then when I asked for a UK (or Ireland) number for Dell he put me through to his "supervisor" who cut me off when I said that I wanted to speak with someone who could understand what the problem was with my computer.

In the end I rang the Ireland sales number and the guy who sold me the computer put me through to a support guy in Ireland who diagnosed my problem and sorted it.

He also said that he would pass my comments on about my Indian call centre experience, and obviously Dell management have acted on mine and other's. Some how I really don't think that Ntl would, do you??

[carlingman]

I think the exporting of jobs from this country of ours is merely down to the fact of the government providing such a cushty option for the people that do not want to work.

The average working person who have worked for long periods of their life and foolishly bought their own property and then due to no fault of their own endure a period of unemployment gets nothing from the state only a meagre amount to live on.

On the reverse side the benefits offered to those who have lived off the state and are in council or rented property come out on top every time.

The issue of Call Centres moving abroad for cheap labour is nothing compared to the scandalous wages that others endure.

If a Call Centre moves abroad there is usually uproar as this thread has proved with insinuations of they are taking British Jobs etc.

You have an option if you feel that strongly do not use them and boycott them.

However I donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t see people refraining from eating Chocolate or drinking coffee because of the scandalous measures these firms use.

The answer is simple and is because the market is there for it and not many have bothered to question the ethics behind it.

Take for example coffee and chocolate you don't know for sure which country the cocoa comes from.

Chances are though it is more than likely it will be The Ivory Coast which makes at least half of the world's cocoa.

We spend 4 billion a year on chocolate and not one of the manufacturers are prepared to discuss the issue of child labour.

Instead they come out with some crap that by 2005 we should be guaranteed that our chocolate is not produced with child slave labour by way of some protocol they have signed which doesnââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t exist.

A BBC reporter summed it up quite recently when he went looking for such evidence of child labour saying within 30 minutes he found them wearing grubby clothing and carrying machetes with the oldest being 13 and the younger ones in the group didnâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t even know their age hinting they maybe as young as 6 or 7.

As the journalist was talking to them their boss turned on a bike looking for them and he was only 15 himself.

All of these kids were passed between coffee and cocoa farms depending on seasons and paid an equivalent of £1 per day between the 10 of them.

A reasonable wage not for the hot and tiring work of being bent over in a field all day picking.

**** like this happens and still goes on but at the end of the day will people stop dialling these call centres or stop eating chocolate or drinking coffee.

I think not.

A call centre over in India for example would be a welcome addition to them and more than a likely a nice safe environment to work in and to them good money regardless of our ethics.

We live the life of luxury here compared to some of the third world countries.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by dellwear

But you have to ask why retention is so bad, its because the targets are usually too high and the company treat the call centre staff with utter contempt.

I've worked in several call centres and I can tell you they are horrid places to work, most (not all) company's aren't that bothered about their call centre turn over, they don't care because there are others waiting to walk in where others have walked out.




I think your wrong there, most DO care that they are speaking with someone on the other side of the world who has little or no knowledge of the product they are supporting.

I rang Dell on a support matter and got through to India, the guy I spoke with couldn't understand what I was asking because it wasn't on his script. Then when I asked for a UK (or Ireland) number for Dell he put me through to his "supervisor" who cut me off when I said that I wanted to speak with someone who could understand what the problem was with my computer.

In the end I rang the Ireland sales number and the guy who sold me the computer put me through to a support guy in Ireland who diagnosed my problem and sorted it.

He also said that he would pass my comments on about my Indian call centre experience, and obviously Dell management have acted on mine and other's. Some how I really don't think that Ntl would, do you??

you obviously have knowledge of working for call centres where I dont have that experience, I am amazed that they so easily cope with the turnover of employees as they do. I know ntl had a very bad attitude towards staff turnover and when a very senior person was asked they said "there are plenty more people out there" In this instance they were answering a question about a big turnover of engineers, the management also thought that skilled engineers would be queing up at the door as quick as they pi**ed people off into leaving. This is not the case because it's allways better to keep good skilled people than waste money finding and training new ones.

People may say there are plenty of jobs out there, but the company that I am currently working for are having a terrible job finding suitable people to employ.
There is another load of jobs posted on the board again last week due to expansion, unfortunately they have just starved all the resources in the local are and have been looking further afield to get people to re-locate in the area for some time.

Yes, I think there are still many jobs I will agree but the big problem is matching jobs to skills. Just ask all the engineers with SDH experience how rosey it's been looking for them over the last 2 years, even the sought after cisco trained people are probably finding it difficult in an industry that became over supplied with these skills.

I am working with someone who has recently spent 6 weeks having problems with the Dell Indian callcentre, he was promised next day delivery for a new laptop and spent nearly 6 weeks getting it cancelled only for it to turn up 2 days later. He also had to speak to Ireland in the end to get some sense!

[Enterian]

Oh no - now it seems my employers are jumping on the band-wagon!

And they're not stopping at call centre staff either, they're talking about IT staff too - Nice Christmas I'm gonna have!

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Enterian

Oh no - now it seems my employers are jumping on the band-wagon!

And they're not stopping at call centre staff either, they're talking about IT staff too - Nice Christmas I'm gonna have!

Maybe you should direct your employers to threads like this where customers feel strongly enough to stop using the company if they are using Indian call centers.

[Enterian]

I doubt they'd listen, profit now seems to be the overriding motive.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Enterian

I doubt they'd listen, profit now seems to be the overriding motive.

What profit will they have if they have no customers? If customers call for help can't understand the help they don;t recomend them to others profit is lost.

[Enterian]

I agree, but unfortunately all they seem to focus on is the next quarter's profits, the long term effects seem to be completely ignored.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Enterian

I agree, but unfortunately all they seem to focus on is the next quarter's profits, the long term effects seem to be completely ignored.

the words in that song comes to mind here "" and anorther one bites the dust""

Shortsighted Bosses who will milk the profits dry then close and move on to do the same to another comapny..