ntl Service Charges new!

Originally Posted by SMHarman

It does put you in a strong position to send them such an invoice and if they do not pay it roll it into a small claims court.
Send them the bill.

If I understand it correctly, to enforce this on them you would have to propose a change in the contract between yourself and NTL - they, like the customer, presumably have the right to cancel the service if the new T&Cs are not acceptable.

However you would have a case to take to court, without making any statements about penalties or sending invoices, if they caused you financial loss by negligence on their part.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by acoolwelshbloke

I have to say I agree with most of the charges, However the remote control is their property and is up to them to replace unless you break it or loose it!

Agreed.

Originally Posted by acoolwelshbloke

Don't even get me started on the £4 downgrade fee, That is just theft in my opinion!

So if I cancel Disney (£5 a month) of my account they charge me £4 for the honour of doing so?

---------- Post added at 14:52 ---------- Previous post was at 14:51 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris T

If I understand it correctly, to enforce this on them you would have to propose a change in the contract between yourself and NTL - they, like the customer, presumably have the right to cancel the service if the new T&Cs are not acceptable.

However you would have a case to take to court, without making any statements about penalties or sending invoices, if they caused you financial loss by negligence on their part.

Exactly, it is a lot easier to levy such a bill by throwing their standard charges back at them, though you could as you point out calculate your 1/2 days pay after tax and claim that instead.

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Agreed.
So if I cancel Disney (£5 a month) of my account they charge me £4 for the honour of doing so?

The wording of the FAQ says 'all three services' in its example, suggesting by service they mean 'phone', 'internet' and 'TV', not the packages or options that exist within those services.

So, if you had all three and tried to cancel TV and Phone, they would charge you £8. Frankly that is criminal and if they tried it on me I'd cancel the broadband as well.

They just love finding new ways to make their customers hate them, don't they?

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Chris T

The wording of the FAQ says 'all three services' in its example, suggesting by service they mean 'phone', 'internet' and 'TV', not the packages or options that exist within those services.

So, if you had all three and tried to cancel TV and Phone, they would charge you £8. Frankly that is criminal and if they tried it on me I'd cancel the broadband as well.

Even more so as you can't cancel the phone and keep TV. So, it could be argued they are one service, except when you cancel them

Originally Posted by danielf

Even more so as you can't cancel the phone and keep TV. So, it could be argued they are one service, except when you cancel them

NTL's phone and TV services have famously morphed from two to one to two again, depending on what was more convenient for NTL. I bet they are two services in this instance.

[slef2003]

Originally Posted by handyman

A few points...



Go on have a laugh tell your adsl supplier that your modem is faulty I'm sure they will tell you where you can buy one.

I cant remember being given an option to buy my own modem!! I am under the impression that the modem is part of the service that I purchase from NTL...As the MAC addy is linked to my A/C we don't own teh modems NTL do, therefore it is their responsibility to provide equipment that is fit for the service. The majority of ADSL modems are bought (either by incorporating the cost into the first years subs or peeps buying them from the isp or another retailer) and are easily available in the high st.

If I pay for a service then I do expect the equipment to be appropriate for that servcie...therefore if NTL up the speed to one that the equipment provided can not cope with, then I think that is is NTL's responsibilty to provide the hardware to use that service.....If they did not provide the modem and it was the customers responsibilty for providing a suitable modem (as is the way with self install ADSL) then I would have no gripes about getting a new modem as it would be my choice whether I wanted to utilise the speed increase or not. I happily purchased a new router when my speed was increased to 10Mb as the port connecting to my modem was only 10MB duplex and as such could not handle a full 10MB download...no problem as it was my responsibilty and no criticism on my part of NTL....now if my modem couldn't cope with the full 10MB then I would be an unhappy peep!!

[Chrysalis]

I agree with most of the charges it is just I think installation should cost money for new customers if ntl were to do a general cost assessment but of course that would stop their agressive sales techniques so wont happen.

What I have got problems with is the downgrade fee and the hardware replacement cost, why should I pay for damaged equipment replacement that I rent of ntl? If my cooker breaks I ring my landlord he either fixes it or replaces it at his own cost since I rent. Ntl is the same. If ntl want to charge for equipment faults then the equipment should be owned by the customer.

As for itemised calls this month my total call charges were just over £3.

so

Dec 2005 itemised calls £1.21 unitemised £11.36
Jan 2006 itemised calls £3.06 unitemised £14.60
Feb 2006 itemised calls £3.71 no unitemised

I find that very suspicous that when I started full itemisation I had a big reduction in costs when I am using the phone in the same manner and ntl wouldnt produce my call log for the previous unitemised month.

[Mr Angry]

As "Simply Grey" posted earlier whoever drafted / agreed this has walked ntl into a legal minefield which will result in costs of many thousands of pounds.

The proposed "...late payment fee of £10" is a breach of the 1977 (& subsequent amendments) Act.

It constitutes a "penalty" and is illegal under consumer credit law which clearly states that a charge cannot be in excess of the liquidated losses incurred.

Anther forum which I am involved with has recovered many thousands of pounds over the past twelve months in respect of illegal charges such as this. The fact that ntl openly admit that this is a "late payment fee" as opposed to trying to hide it behind the usual "administration charge" is proof that the cheese has slid of their cracker.

Several members of the legal profession and people who have won claims via the forum in question have viewed these proposed charges and are quite happy to advise should anyone want to avail of assistance / advice in the event that ntl try this on with anyone here or elsewhere.

Incidentally, it's interesting that NTL will charge you £12.00 for a year of itemised billing while under the 1998 DPA you can request same for a statutory fee of no more than £10.00 (at considerably more administration costs to them).

Unless they can quantify why suddenly it costs £4.00 to downgrade a service (remember this is currently free) this will also be argued to be a "penalty charge".

Their legal affairs people really need to pull their socks up.

For example: "There will be a one off £25 charge to have your second set-top box installed. This charge will appear as "Install TV Add SetTop" on your next bill."

I'm assuming, from the wording, that there is no rolling fee for the service?

Please, really ntl - get your act together.

If anyone wants advice on how to contest charges or needs qualified legal advice on how to proceed with small claims drop me a pm and I'll hook you up.


Ref: Chrysalis above:

"..and ntl wouldnt produce my call log for the previous unitemised month".

Chrysalis, point out to them that they are, by definition, a "Data Controller" and, as such, are bound by the DPA 1998 and the Office of the Information Commissioner not only to retain the information which you might require off them in relation to your account but also that, should you advise them that you are considering taking legal proceedings, they are in no position to refuse under the Ch34 exemptions of the aforementioned Act.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

The proposed "...late payment fee of £10" is a breach of the 1977 (& subsequent amendments) Act.

It constitutes a "penalty" and is illegal under consumer credit law which clearly states that a charge cannot be in excess of the liquidated losses incurred.

What is the difference between that and late payment fees from credit cards, store cards etc?

[Mr Angry]

None - they're all illegal if they do not constitute / reflect the actual liquidated losses.

[Derek]

So basically every single late fee is actually illegal?

I'm a little bit skeptical about that.

[punky]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

None - they're all illegal if they do not constitute / reflect the actual liquidated losses.

My credit card late fee (twice caused by the poxy Royal Mail) is always a flat fee regardless of my CC balance...

(I pay my bills at the bank now)

[Mr Angry]

Yes.

Unless the person applying the fee can prove, in a court of law, that the fee charged represents the actual cost to them in liquidated losses.

Consider this. Does it cost anyone £10.00 to produce a standard computer generated letter?

No.

Punky, write to them demanding them back / refunded otherwise you will take them to the small claims court.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Yes.

Unless the person applying the fee can prove, in a court of law, that the fee charged represents the actual cost to them in liquidated losses.

Consider this. Does it cost anyone £10.00 to produce a standard computer generated letter?

No.

Punky, write to them demanding them back / refunded otherwise you will take them to the small claims court.

Oooh and i assume you can go back 6 years on this. Could be fun. Can you use money claim on line to do these claims?

[dragon]

Originally Posted by dezzo

Rubbish.

The main reason for this is that there has been several different practises and policies over the years for work that the engineers do. This just gives a clear picture to everyone what to expect and how much it will cost.

In several cases the cost of the work done is far cheaper than the actual costs of doing it.

Try getting BT to move an extension for £25.00

As has been said many times before. Ntl isn't a charity.

extensions are the property of the customer and not BT so if a fault is proven onto an extension the customer is charged due to it being customer provided equipment (even if it was there when you bought the house.etc its not actually BT who put those in normally.)

If you wish you can have BT install your extensions in which case if anything goes wrong on them and its found to be a fault with a BT installed extension then they should put it right for free.

Most BT NTE (network terminating equipment, aka the phone socket) should have a removable front plate on it with the connectors on it, some of the older ones don't but most do What a BT engineer will do is take that off and if the line tests ok from that point outwards then its a problem with the extensions or something you've got plugged into a socket and you will charged as its a fault on YOUR equipment.

You are perfectly entitled to take that front plate off and connect the extensions yourself or have any 3rd party do it for you its the wires behind that bit your not supposed to touch.

as for houses where extensions already exist it tends to be the builder of the house or a previous owner thats put those in so again if a fault is found on them you WILL be charged.

NTL's problem with charging for faulty STB.etc is THEY own the STB your not t touch the cable connection from it therefore it is absolutly absurd that you should pay for a fault on THEIR equipment, i would not expect anyone else to charge for a fault on THEIR equipment!

the reason you pay for SKY boxes to be repaired after a year is becuase you actually OWN the box its yours, although that does mean u get to keep it should you ever decide to get rid of sky same goes with the dish i believe, they give you it when you sign a years contract.

Oh and should i be saying BT anymore isnt it Openreach now.