ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion

Originally Posted by ntl.wotcha

I really don't see how they can say that this move will give NTL a good chance to take on Sky. Sky do not offer Mobile services and I doubt that many customers give two hoots if NTL want to give them a mobile deal, I certainly don't.

And a month ago, Sky didn't offer broadband internet. PLCs can't stand still. They have to grow, or the share price shrivels. And there is a finite amount of growth in subscription TV. That means you have to find new areas of business. So, Sky may not offer mobile now, but give it time and I wouldn't be surprised. Indeed, this tie-up between NTL and Virgin may just make them sit up and think about it, assuming they are not doing so already.

What will give them a good run against sky, is a decent PVR deal, and a good VoD/HD service. These are the two services which will make people spend money, not mobile phones. IMO.

You, as an NTL watcher, are assuming that the majority of people make purchase and subscription decisions on the same basis that you do. In fact, most people do not undertake a detailed comparative benefit of the services on offer before they sign up. They buy on the strength of the brand. Sky's brand eclipses NTL's at the moment, in large part because it was there as a national entity long before NTL (and, unlike NTL, is a national brand).

Virgin is a tremendously powerful brand. Whether we think it deserves its reputation is besides the point; the fact is, it's big, and it's well thought of. Frankly I think this is a stroke of genius by NTL. They have basically saved themselves the millions they would have to have spent on a brand-building exercise had they re-launched, post merge with Telewest, with a completely new and unheard of name like UK Cable.

The problem with the mobile phone market in this country is cross network charging and with most people on O2 or Orange or Vodaphone, who wants to be on T-mobile ?

Again, you miss the point. Joe Public does not understand these details, nor does he want to. By your logic, no-one would be on T Mobile, and no-one would be on Virgin mobile. But plenty of people are, despite them being the younger of the brands in the UK. Why is that?

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by ntl.wotcha

I really don't see how they can say that this move will give NTL a good chance to take on Sky. Sky do not offer Mobile services and I doubt that many customers give two hoots if NTL want to give them a mobile deal, I certainly don't.

With their recent licencing of TV shows to vodafone (I think), you can bet that even if they aren't already, Sky will be looking into moving into the mobile market.

In fact, the idea of TV on your mobile appears to be catching on (at least in the eyes of the mobile operators).

It might be good for NTL to get into this market before Sky.

What will give them a good run against sky, is a decent PVR deal, and a good VoD/HD service. These are the two services which will make people spend money, not mobile phones. IMO.

Agreed, and these are coming. Maybe not quickly enough, but they are coming.

The problem with the mobile phone market in this country is cross network charging and with most people on O2 or Orange or Vodaphone, who wants to be on T-mobile ?

Actually, I do alright with T Mobile. TBH, with the amount of phones people appear to be buying (we have one of the largest mobile phone markets in the world), I suspect most people don't give a monkey's about cross network charges.

Also, as Chris said, you underestimate the power of branding. Sky (in the early days at least) was inferior to Cable, yet they still succeeded. Why? Initially it was because they had enough money to buy the rights to the Premiere league footy matches, and price everyone else out of the market. Now, they have a good brand. Why can Nike get away with charging 120 pounds for a pair of trainers, when exactly the same pair would cost 30 from a no-name make? Because they have a good brand.

I have criticised Virgin in this thread, and stand by what I said, but you don't get a much better brand than Virgin. Richard Branson is very effective at marketing his companies, and this is just what NTL (and to a certain extent Telewest) need right now.

[BBKing]

Quite, Stuart. Brand is everything with Branson, and since ntl/TW need to rebrand anyway, would you rather start from scratch with an unknown name or pick up (fairly cheaply) one of the world's most recognised names? No-brainer when put like that.

[Chrysalis]

I am hoping this might improve things as some parts of ntl service is poor. He plans to keep simon duffy in charge is what dissapoints me the most.

[BBKing]

Not many takeovers result in the replacement of the man doing the takeover. This is ntl (CEO S. Duffy) taking over Virgin Mobile and borrowing their brandname to cover a whole bunch of services, not Branson marching into Hook full of pep and ginger and ideas.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

I am hoping this might improve things as some parts of ntl service is poor. He plans to keep simon duffy in charge is what dissapoints me the most.

Why? IIRC it was his predecessor, Barclay Knapp, who presided over near-bankruptcy and the appalling slide in customer service. I thought Duffy was the man left to pick up the pieces?

[jtwn]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ch/4218500.stm

Working Lunch had something on it, 4.50min in. Nothing new really and whether you should trust them anyway, considering according to them easynet is now part of the easygroup o_O

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Chris T

Why? IIRC it was his predecessor, Barclay Knapp, who presided over near-bankruptcy and the appalling slide in customer service. I thought Duffy was the man left to pick up the pieces?

Correct. Duffy has done remarkable well considering the mess that BK and LW left.... But there's no fun in that info Chris - so let's get back to the job in hand and slate ntl and it's employees at every opportunity, eh?

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by Chris T

And a month ago, Sky didn't offer broadband internet. PLCs can't stand still...

eh? do Sky offer broadband internet now?

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

eh? do Sky offer broadband internet now?

That's why they bought Easynet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4364566.stm

The deal is yet to be formally completed, but that doesn't alter my point.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

I am hoping this might improve things as some parts of ntl service is poor. He plans to keep simon duffy in charge is what dissapoints me the most.

In fairness to Simon Duffy, NTL have improved massively under his leadership. Look at what has happened on this site. Under Barclay Knapp (IIRC), Nthellworld.com (which up to that point had functioned as a very effective tool for helping customers) was closed with a promise of a new NTL community site and broadband medic to replace it. Broadband medic turned out to be a pile of sh*te (IMO), and NTL community died before it was released to the public. In the meantime, they (according to Mark W) actually told staff that anyone accessing any outside NTL complaints sites risked disciplinary action.

Now, we are back in a position where we are officially recognised (and even recommended) by NTL, and, under Simon Duffy, NTL have been quite open with us, and are actively trying to fix any problems they hear of from this site.

Sure, NTL still don't get it right some (or a lot) of the time, but they are trying, which is something they didn't seem to in the past.

That's without mentioning the the fact that the broadband speeds have gone up twice with only a little increase in price, and the introduction of PVR and VOD,

[King Of Fools]

Comment from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4499330.stm

Originally Posted by BBC

But there are plenty of loose threads left, not least poor customer service (which earned NTL the nickname "NTL hell" on a website run by disgruntled customers).

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

Sure, NTL still don't get it right some (or a lot) of the time, but they are trying, which is something they didn't seem to in the past.

You also have to remember that by default the user base of a forum like this is likely to have had problems with NTL (or Telewest). Hence a more negative experience amongst forum members than the general public.

[zaax]

Do NTL make their own programs? of have their own channels?

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by zaax

Do NTL make their own programs? of have their own channels?

Telewest own FlexTech (Living TV, UKtv and things). Also NTL and Telewest joint own FilmFlex.